Paging Kenny Williams

[Soxbadger]

Jake Peavy was a drastically different situation due to the financial position of the Padres and the fact that there were only a limited number of teams that could afford and/or would trade for Peavy. The Padres seemed to have to trade Peavy due to his salary.

 

Laroche may have a few suitors, and Im not sure the Sox can trade Danks while they have not signed his brother to a long term deal. The Sox dont have a ton of bullets and Arizona isnt just going to give Laroche away for junk today, when they could conceivably get more in July.

 

Well see but I dont think the Sox middle tier spects really wow anyone into making a trade immediately.

[SoxFan562004]

I have no doubt KW is actively attempting to make this team better

[SoxFan562004]

It doesn't help when Buster Olney is reporting that the Sox were "open for business" and ready to sell off veterans.

 

You also really need to stop using the word "everyone" I absolutely hate that. Not every person lost hope, hell iamshack has been behind this team from the very beginning and stuck with them even when we started getting reports that the Sox were ready to White Flag it. s*** we had a "buyers" thread when we were about 9 games back.

 

And for the record: I agree with you about the tone of the thread, there's really no rush as of right now. "paging Kenny" seems like a poor choice of words.

thank you for commenting on people throwing around "everyone." I didn't think they would rip off 11 straight and counting, but my posts prove I thought this team would make some sort of surge and stick around.

[Soxbadger]

I guess I could have said "almost" everyone. But I figured that people would clearly understand that I was speaking about the majority and not using "everyone" literally.

 

I tried to be positive, but I just stopped posting because I couldnt really read all the doom and gloom. I guess that was just my frustration with how some people act.

 

(Edit)

 

Are you guys serious?

 

I use everyone like 1 or 2 times in the history of my posts and people are making a huge deal out of it?

Edited June 27, 2010 by Soxbadger

[Kalapse]

Jake Peavy was a drastically different situation due to the financial position of the Padres and the fact that there were only a limited number of teams that could afford and/or would trade for Peavy. The Padres seemed to have to trade Peavy due to his salary.

 

Laroche may have a few suitors, and Im not sure the Sox can trade Danks while they have not signed his brother to a long term deal. The Sox dont have a ton of bullets and Arizona isnt just going to give Laroche away for junk today, when they could conceivably get more in July.

 

Well see but I dont think the Sox middle tier spects really wow anyone into making a trade immediately.

Arizona is also incredibly cash strapped, they basically gave away Conor Jackson a few weeks ago to save themselves about $1.5M. That organization is in complete disarray: Hinch is likely out as manager, it's rumored that Byrnes is set to resign and the only untouchable players on the entire big league roster are Justin Upton and Ian Kennedy (that includes Dan Haren and Mark Reynolds). I could definitely see them waiting until the end of July to move LaRoche but that all depends on just how eager ownership is to blow that thing up and save some money. LaRoche's $6M salary would be a nice one to get off the books sooner rather than later.

[Kalapse]

I guess I could have said "almost" everyone. But I figured that people would clearly understand that I was speaking about the majority and not using "everyone" literally.

 

I tried to be positive, but I just stopped posting because I couldnt really read all the doom and gloom. I guess that was just my frustration with how some people act.

 

(Edit)

 

Are you guys serious?

 

I use everyone like 1 or 2 times in the history of my posts and people are making a huge deal out of it?

I just hate that kind of wording, personally. It's more of a pet peeve than anything else. Usually because I'm part of the minority that's being lumped in with the rest.

[Soxbadger]

Trading him 1 month early saves about $1mil. I think it depends on how good the spects are, and White Sox mid tier spects arent good enough to convince me (if I was Arizona) to trade now, instead of taking a wait and see approach.

 

Conversely, the Sox would save $1mil if they dont trade till the end of the month, and I think the Sox are kind of strapped themselves.

 

(Edit)

 

Its no problem and I actually dislike it too, and was surprised that I did it, but I was just being lazy and trying to get the point across that if our GM did what people said on a message board, wed never even be here.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Soxbadger

[SoxFan562004]

Trading him 1 month early saves about $1mil. I think it depends on how good the spects are, and White Sox mid tier spects arent good enough to convince me (if I was Arizona) to trade now, instead of taking a wait and see approach.

 

Conversely, the Sox would save $1mil if they dont trade till the end of the month, and I think the Sox are kind of strapped themselves.

(Edit)

 

Its no problem and I actually dislike it too, and was surprised that I did it, but I was just being lazy and trying to get the point across that if our GM did what people said on a message board, wed never even be here.

I disagree with this, before the season and last week JR said there's money for an impact player, also with this streak they will get more people in, heck the Braves series drew well for the a mid week Sox series and one of those games had a two hour typhoon!

 

 

[Kalapse]

Trading him 1 month early saves about $1mil. I think it depends on how good the spects are, and White Sox mid tier spects arent good enough to convince me (if I was Arizona) to trade now, instead of taking a wait and see approach.

 

Conversely, the Sox would save $1mil if they dont trade till the end of the month, and I think the Sox are kind of strapped themselves.

 

(Edit)

 

Its no problem and I actually dislike it too, and was surprised that I did it, but I was just being lazy and trying to get the point across that if our GM did what people said on a message board, wed never even be here.

I'm not sure Kenny wouldn't have sold off some talent if there had been a stronger market for his veterans. I mean within a few days of each other when we were way out of it we got a "open for business" report from a National reporter as well as a "very little interest" report. The market may have saved Kenny from himself.

 

Anyway, the White Sox's financial situation is a tricky one; we did supposedly offer Johnny Damon ~$7M at the end of the offseason, I do wonder if that money is still available as JR has hinted recently that it may be. As for the D-Backs only saving $1M by trading LaRoche now; well as I said they did just give away Conor Jackson for nothing in order to save a measly $1.5M so their financial standing appears to be a highly volatile one. And we are talking about Adam LaRoche here, not exactly a star, career .833 OPS and a current .820 OPS this would be a very nice upgrade for us (since we have a pretty terrible DH situation currently) but he's not that good of a player.

[Soxbadger]

From my perspective, attendance has been really bad before the Braves series. At the game they listed the attendance at 30k, and that was the first game I attended with that high, some had been under 20k attendance.

 

I should have said that if attendance continued at the sub 20k rate, then they may become cash strapped. And thats why there has to be caution here, because right now we are averaging less fans than Arizona (around 24k according to espn.)

 

As for Laroche, I guess Im always skeptical on White Sox spects and how other teams value them. Who would really interest Arizona outside of Danks, Flowers, Hudson? I mean does Morel even make sense for the Sox? Or should they be looking for a more permanent solution (if possible?).

 

I guess Im just saying that the White Sox need to take some time and evaluate what is going on. They dont have a ton of pieces to work with, so they need to use them well (imo) and not just buy the fist thing available.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Yes, but you have to let the market settle a little bit, if you over-reach out of desperation, you end up paying way too much.

 

Shedding Flowers or Hudson now, before we see how well the White Sox stand up head-to-head against Minnesota and Detroit...probably not the smartest move in the world, because obviously AJ and Freddy Garcia aren't going to be around forever.

 

And it's not like the White Sox just took off and cruised when they added Rios and Peavy. Obviously, Peavy was hurt, but Rios was in a funk all year long, and that funk was passed on to JD, who saw the writing on the wall in terms of his future and he started moping and it affected the attitude/chemistry of the entire team.

 

So you have to be very careful when you tinker with something that's going so well. Like in 2006, all the changes KW made were "logical" ones but sometimes you can mess around with a good thing too much.

 

We just need to ride this out to its conclusion, then, you can start thinking about changes/tweaks/improvements to the roster.

 

Who knows how long we can ride Vizquel, how Beckham ends up...but we need to give this at least two more weeks of constant monitoring.

The first part - I don't think an Adam LaRoche type costs a Hudson or Flowers at any point in the season. We're talking about a guy who the Red Sox acquired for very little just last season and then sent to the Braves for walking human suckfest Casey Kotchman. LaRoche is the perfect addition IMO since he's a lefty, he's a second half guy, he has power, and he should come fairly cheap.

 

The second and third parts I agree on. I'd go after a complimentary piece, but a Kelly Johnson type (i.e. good player who is having a good year that isn't way out of line with what is expected of him normally) would probably be a little too much to target right now, since Beckham may be getting back to where he should be. We don't want to move some chips for a 2B only to find out later that 3B is our greatest area of need. But that said I'd definitely be calling on some defense-first guys who are capable of playing multiple IF positions just to see what is available for what price, because someone like that is probably going to be needed no matter what.

[Kalapse]

From my perspective, attendance has been really bad before the Braves series. At the game they listed the attendance at 30k, and that was the first game I attended with that high, some had been under 20k attendance.

 

I should have said that if attendance continued at the sub 20k rate, then they may become cash strapped. And thats why there has to be caution here, because right now we are averaging less fans than Arizona (around 24k according to espn.)

 

As for Laroche, I guess Im always skeptical on White Sox spects and how other teams value them. Who would really interest Arizona outside of Danks, Flowers, Hudson? I mean does Morel even make sense for the Sox? Or should they be looking for a more permanent solution (if possible?).

 

I guess Im just saying that the White Sox need to take some time and evaluate what is going on. They dont have a ton of pieces to work with, so they need to use them well (imo) and not just buy the fist thing available.

I agree with you and personally I think Kenny has higher aspirations than Adam LaRoche for our DH vacancy (that's right, I'm calling it a vacancy) that'll take him a while longer to acquire. I've mostly argued the point because I don't think the debated scenario is out of the realm of possibility.

[prochisox]

I could live with Teahen being the dh when he gets back, this team needs an arm in the bullpen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I agree with you and personally I think Kenny has higher aspirations than Adam LaRoche for our DH vacancy (that's right, I'm calling it a vacancy) that'll take him a while longer to acquire. I've mostly argued the point because I don't think the debated scenario is out of the realm of possibility.

Who? We're pretty much confined to a lefty, or at least we should be looking for a lefty over anything else.

 

AGon - winning or not the Pads could move him, but they probably won't now, and he'll be uber expensive

Dunn - very expensive, but great fit IF we feel he'll stick around as a DH going forward

Berkman - possible deal here, but if Astros are eating cash they'll want something back and he's only hitting in the .240's in the freaking NL Central

LaRoche - best option all considered IMO

Prince - lol, yeah right

Luke Scott - Orioles will ask a lot, much more than he's worth IMO

Overbay - available for nothing if we want him, but having a terrible year

Lind - any chance on this? could we find a match and send a haul to Toronto? probably not, and he's having a bad year anyway

Ibanez - probably could be had, having a bad year, change of scenery?

DeJesus - dangerous if we actually want to send good players to KC, which they'll demand, but not a power option

Fukudome - maybe move some bad deals and/or get s***load of salary back, but he's not even a power option anyway

Garrett Jones - would Pirates deal him? for how much, and would it be worth it to buy sky-high on a former AAAA player?

 

Probably other options, too. But LaRoche seems like a guy who would help us now, and even if he didn't, we wouldn't be taking on a massive salary and the players we sent back likely wouldn't come around to bite us in the end. He's the cheap, safe move IMO.

[Kalapse]

He's the cheap, safe move IMO.

That's just it, even if it's what we think is sensible Kenny isn't really a "safe move" kind of guy, trading for and subsequently locking up for no good reason Mark Teahen, trading for Peavy and acquiring Rios all within a few months of each other proves that out. If he believes the division is winnable (and at this point there's no reason to believe otherwise) you'd have to think he goes for the perfect fit even if it does cause some major personnel and financial issues if we come up short at season's end. The guy wants nothing more than to win and to show how f***ing huge his balls are while doing so.

[hi8is]

jim thome at f***ing 500k sure sounds good right about now.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That's just it, even if it's what we think is sensible Kenny isn't really a "safe move" kind of guy, trading for and subsequently locking up for no good reason Mark Teahen, trading for Peavy and acquiring Rios all within a few months of each other proves that out. If he believes the division is winnable (and at this point there's no reason to believe otherwise) you'd have to think he goes for the perfect fit even if it does cause some major personnel and financial issues if we come up short at season's end. The guy wants nothing more than to win and to show how f***ing huge his balls are while doing so.

Good point.

 

Then in that case, Prince is the most dangerous move he can make. Trade the farm and the lose the guy for draft picks when Borass goes behind his back? Yeah that could really hurt.

 

Gonzalez he may have really no control over unless he wants to add Beckham, given D2's issues and Mitchell being out.

 

Berkman is hardly that dangerous since he'll be the cheapest of the big bats other than LaRoche.

 

Dunn should be the move then. It's dangerous (costs a lot, rental, may not extend to be a DH here) but it could potentially work out brilliantly.

[iamshack]

I don't think there is any rush right now, considering the way the SPs are performing. That doesn't mean we should rest on our laurels, but Badger is right - we don't have a whole lot of depth - so what pieces we do give away we need to make sure count.

 

Any of us that has been a Sox fan for the last several years knows darn well that KW will have his nose in everyone else's business for the next few weeks, trying to sniff out who is available, who may become available, and who we have the resources to acquire. I have absolute faith that he explores more potential deals than anyone else out there.

 

As for LaRoche, I just think that it's not a big secret anymore that the guy us a second half player. If I know it, and you know it, I have a pretty good feeling Josh Byrnes knows it. The demand should be there for him to acquire a pretty decent package for him.

 

As Kal alluded to though, there is no reason to rush, although I am sure we are being proactive. We've reigned this thing back in now, but it's time to act prudent and not to overreact.

 

I still firmly believe that playing Mark Kotsay every day one of our lesser problems. Not every player needs to be an all star when you're pitching is as strong as ours is. The much bigger key for me is to keep Quentin going, and to rouse Gordon from his slump and get his confidence back. If we can accomplish those two things, it will be the same as making a couple of huge trades in early July.

[SoxAce]

Garrett Jones

 

See J4L.. I didn't even have to mention him.

 

[Kalapse]

I still firmly believe that playing Mark Kotsay every day one of our lesser problems. Not every player needs to be an all star when you're pitching is as strong as ours is. The much bigger key for me is to keep Quentin going, and to rouse Gordon from his slump and get his confidence back. If we can accomplish those two things, it will be the same as making a couple of huge trades in early July.

With the biggest worry being the probable regression of Konerko and Rios back to the mean sometime in the relatively near future. IF Quentin and Beckham get back on track and we don't add another bat (just speaking hypothetically) we're left hoping those 2 pick up the slack.

[Quin]

AGon - winning or not the Pads could move him, but they probably won't now, and he'll be uber expensive

 

Amazingly, I could still see Kenny just pulling AGon from nowhere without giving up Gordon.

 

That being said, I think LaRoche is the most likely and then Dunn.

[iamshack]

With the biggest worry being the probable regression of Konerko and Rios back to the mean sometime in the relatively near future. IF Quentin and Beckham get back on track and we don't add another bat (just speaking hypothetically) we're left hoping those 2 pick up the slack.

Yeah, that's a very good point. Can't count on PK and Rios to carry us quite this much for very much longer.

 

I'm all in favor of getting a bat, and I'd love for it to be a bold stroke by Kenny. But I think we have the ability to wait a bit, and hopefully some more options will present themselves, because I'm not exactly enamored by what's out there right now.

[iamshack]

Amazingly, I could still see Kenny just pulling AGon from nowhere without giving up Gordon.

 

That being said, I think LaRoche is the most likely and then Dunn.

That would be an absolute disgrace to the fans in San Diego if that happened.

 

Of course, I haven't looked at their attendance figures either...

[Quin]

That would be an absolute disgrace to the fans in San Diego if that happened.

 

Of course, I haven't looked at their attendance figures either...

 

Around 23.5K a game.

[knightni]

Aramis Ramirez would fix a lot. I wonder if the Sox could even get him without giving up Hudson, though.