What moves have come back to bite Kenny?

[Balta1701]

I forgot about this one since he's already bounced around some, but Aaron Cunningham for Danny Richar. Cunningham's now on to the Padres and has played well in limited AB's this season.

[Steve9347]

Daniel Hudson is 3-0 with a 1.59 ERA with AZ.

Why are we so happy to ignore the supreme amount of ass that Edwin Jackson has dominated, and so quick to forget how ineffective Hudson was in his pre-deadline "try out" with us?

[southsider2k5]

Really? Maybe in 2007 because of how many other things imploded, but in 06 and 09, it was certainly up there.

 

From 2005 to 2006 the team ERA went up something like a run. That was the problem then.

[Soxbadger]

Why are we so happy to ignore the supreme amount of ass that Edwin Jackson has dominated, and so quick to forget how ineffective Hudson was in his pre-deadline "try out" with us?

 

Grass is always greener.

 

Id rather have Jackson as our 4th starter the rest of the way. He gives us the best chance to make the playoffs.

[Balta1701]

From 2005 to 2006 the team ERA went up something like a run. That was the problem then.

Part of that in 2006 was that our CF for 1/2 the year couldn't catch a ball if it landed in his glove.

 

(also worth noting...even though that team was hurt most by the degradation of the pitching staff...Vazquez really didn't help improve it that much....and even ignoring the pitching, the offense was severely hampered in a number of games by having #8-#9 hitters who were complete black holes that couldn't turn the lineup over to save their lives).

[WCSox]

From 2005 to 2006 the team ERA went up something like a run. That was the problem then.

 

Exactly. And last year, our bullpen was terrible and our veterans couldn't hit down the stretch.

 

Obviously, having Anderson/Mackowiak and Wise in CF would be a minus to any team. However, the aforementioned teams were talented enough to absorb one bad bat in the lineup. Highly-paid veterans not producing were the real problem in '06, '07, and '09.

Edited August 12, 2010 by WCSox

[BFirebird]

Wasn't the Ritchie trade pre-Kenny?

 

Also, Hudson just moved to a more pitcher-friendly league and they haven't seen him before. Remember the end of last year...he pitched pretty well for us, too. Let him go 'round once and see what happens after that.

I still think Hudson will have problems with lefties. I agree with the let us see how he does going around again.

[iamshack]

In terms of coming back to bite us though...we spent a ton of money on Vazquez, CF was a killer hole for 3+ years (Dewayne Wise as leadoff) that we gave up other guys trying to fill...and now we spent a ton of money to get the CF slot filled. The Sox also had McCarthy at least available in 2006.

 

You can argue either way, Vazquez was at least decent for the Sox in the 2008 season and he was also traded for a guy or two who could be seriously useful in the future...but you have to at least put that one on the list for the ramifications.

 

But would having Chris Young playing CF for us have gotten us anywhere? While CF was a "killer hole," as you say, what would Young have done to alleviate that in any way?

[caulfield12]

Theoretically, if Young was able to play in 2006, you can argue that team MIGHT have made it with McCarthy as the fifth starter.

 

But I doubt it, and Young probably was a season away at that point, if I remember correctly.

 

At one point, we had Rowand, Reed, Anderson, Young and Anthony Webster as our CF depth chart. So it at least had the appearance of being promising for the future and the one area of strength to trade away from.

 

Another very useful power pitcher we traded was Frank Francisco (from Boston for Howry) as part of the package to get Everett from Texas, although you can always bring up the 2005 argument with Cotts or Everett. He wasn't exactly in our system for very long, though.

 

Some might put trading away Nick Masset to the Reds on their list.

 

RHP Daniel Cortes' name has come up again this season for his career again being on an upward track, I haven't even looked up his stat line...I think it was him and Lumsden in the MacDougal trade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

RHP Daniel Cortes' name has come up again this season for his career again being on an upward track, I haven't even looked up his stat line...I think it was him and Lumsden in the MacDougal trade.

Cortes has been stuck at AA since late in 2008 and has put up WHIP numbers of about 1.55 since the start of the 2009 season. His ERA this year is over 5. He's off in Seattle's org now, appearing to just be roster filler.

[caulfield12]

I could have sworn someone said he was throwing upwards of 100 MPH these days...that's why I brought his name back up, since he was in the Hudson category of being on quite a few lists as a Top 40-60 MILB prospect coming out around the time of the trade.

[ILMOU]

the swisher deal is the one that bothers me the most probably. i really liked gio and carter.

 

i'd probably take back pena for brandon allen if given the chance.

 

Carter was traded to AZ for Quentin. Had nothing to do with Swisher.

[Sox72]

Carter was traded to AZ for Quentin. Had nothing to do with Swisher.

 

Right. The others in that trade were De Los Santos and Sweeney. Carter went to the D'Backs for Quentin and almost immediately to the A's for Haren.

[sircaffey]

I could have sworn someone said he was throwing upwards of 100 MPH these days...that's why I brought his name back up, since he was in the Hudson category of being on quite a few lists as a Top 40-60 MILB prospect coming out around the time of the trade.

That's correct. He's got a little Jenks in him. Checkered past, big arm. Still very relevant as a prospect.

[Y2HH]

I think overall KW has done an outstanding job trading away prospects that never amounted to much over time for some decent return (and in one case, exceptional return in 05).

[Quin]

The only one I think that will forever haunt Kenny are Swisher I & II. The list of good deals Kenny has made far outweighs the bad.

[greg775]

Why are we so happy to ignore the supreme amount of ass that Edwin Jackson has dominated, and so quick to forget how ineffective Hudson was in his pre-deadline "try out" with us?

 

Cause of Hudson's lack of experience. Not everybody excels right off the bat. They might need three or four starts to get going. Funny listening to Les Grobstein (sp) tear a caller apart last night who said Hudson was only pitching well cause he's in the NL.

[knightni]

I'm still not happy with Brandon Allen for Tony Pena.

[greg775]

I'm still not happy with Brandon Allen for Tony Pena.

 

I've never understood the Pena love on this board. How is Allen still in the minors at Reno? He has 21 homers and 72 S ribbies. WTF? Shouldn't he be in the bigs?

[chw42]

I've never understood the Pena love on this board. How is Allen still in the minors at Reno? He has 21 homers and 72 S ribbies. WTF? Shouldn't he be in the bigs?

 

Adam LaRoche is blocking him. Plus, Allen wasn't very good at the ML level this year.

[knightni]

Adam LaRoche is blocking him. Plus, Allen wasn't very good at the ML level this year.

Well, he just turned 24 and has as much power potential as Viciedo.

[Balta1701]

Well, he just turned 24 and has as much power potential as Viciedo.

Really, as much power potential as Viciedo? DV was on pace for about a 28-29 HR season as a 21 year old in AAA. Allen has good power numbers but I struggle to accept that.

[witesoxfan]

I don't buy that either. Just looking at numbers, I think Allen projects to be about a league average 1Bman. Probably a good hitter against RHP, mediocre to bad against LHP.

[MattZakrowski]

I don't buy that either. Just looking at numbers, I think Allen projects to be about a league average 1Bman. Probably a good hitter against RHP, mediocre to bad against LHP.

 

League average 1B under team control beats mediocre RP 8 days a week IMO.

[witesoxfan]

League average 1B under team control beats mediocre RP 8 days a week IMO.

 

Agreed. I don't mind the thought process behind the trade (trading an average prospect for an above average reliever), but Tony Pena has been anything but above average. He's really helped the Sox out in a few situations this year, but I think KW would probably like a do-over on that one.