clujer420 Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I'm not taking sides here but a real fan has every right to diss the players. Thats a huge part of being a fan and we're not just gonna kiss everyones ass like Cubs fans. When a guys doing well, we give them credit. If you're talking about supporting our players, thats a whole different story. We support our players all the way and I'm sure everyone here would like to see Koch be a great closer. There's a difference between a player just sucking, and a player not playing up to his capabilities. I think we would all agree that Koch, thus far with the Sox, has not even come close to performing up to his ability, so I think we need to continue to support him until he does so, regardless of the results. If he had a 5.40 ERA and threw 93 MPH for his whole career prior to joining the Sox, it would be easy to give up on him because he's never really performed well. But, his success as Oakland's closer, IMO, gives him some leeway with us Sox fans, and our support is only going to help him get back to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Had Botch been given more save chances, he'd have blown more and probably have an even more ridiculous E.R.A. Billy and many of you are very mistaken, when you say he is a dominant closer. He never was, he was good, but that's it. He never had much movement on his fastball even when it was live, he never had a lot of k's. He almost never has easy innings and that joke curveball of his has been his best pitch this year, he is pretty well f***ed. I would still want somebody else closing even if we had the Billy Botch of years past,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 What are you talking about?  Koch was a dominate closer... and he still will be...  Last year he was  11-4 with 44 saves.. not to mention he pitched 93 Innings with 93 Strikeouts  Now I dont see why you can say he never had a lot of K's because that looks to me like he K'd someone every inning.. hmmm  Hes always had over 30 saves in every year he has pitched, and this will be the first that he doesnt.  You cant say that with more chances he would have blown them all because that pretty much what your saying.  I dont understand what your saying here, it just makes you look bad by saying that he has never been good when clearly he was a dominate closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Had Botch been given more save chances, he'd have blown more and probably have an even more ridiculous E.R.A. Billy and many of you are very mistaken, when you say he is a dominant closer. He never was, he was good, but that's it. He never had much movement on his fastball even when it was live, he never had a lot of k's. He almost never has easy innings and that joke curveball of his has been his best pitch this year, he is pretty well f***ed. I would still want somebody else closing even if we had the Billy Botch of years past,. If....if...if..if he had more chances, this MAY happen...can't say that..  If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then everyday would be like Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Oh and by the way..  Koch had an 11-4 record last year but he only blew 6 Saves... Thats just something for whoever it was that said 11-4 is a terrible record for a closer because it means they blew a ton of saves..  Koch blew 6 saves last year 4 this year  Marte already has 7.. hes on pace to blow more saves this year than Koch did in TWO years..  Koch Blew 10 Saves in 65 chances the past 2 years Marte has blown 7 in 14 chances this year  I got nothing against Marte, he is a badass.. I am just trying to show you that Koch isnt as bad as everyone is trying to make him be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Great article. Because of his attitude, I say give him another chance. But not every night. Flash and closer by committee, including Koch once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 a true sox fan has faith in the players and doesnt just talk s*** about the ones who are struggling and then when the turn it around say that the are good..i garuntee you werent saying this when we first got him..your just the kind of person who jumps on the bandwagon and right now i bet your a royals fan until the sox get into first. Nope I think you are thinking of Cub fans. Sox fans don't wear blinders about their players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Nope I think you are thinking of Cub fans. Sox fans don't wear blinders about their players that was a great comeback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 OK here are the numbers on the Billy Koch arguement. This is how he stacks up against his peers. Since there are 14 teams in the AL, I took the highest 14 save totals and compared their stats. This is how Billy Koch stacks up against them. Â Saves 11th ERA 13th (only Politte trails) Losses T-12th (Baez trails) K/9 13th (L Carter trails) BB/9 13th (MacDougal trails) Save%age 12th (Sasaki, Politte trail) Â Now I want to hear again how his numbers aren't that bad for a closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 again you fail to realize that most of those ppl have a hell of a lot more closing chances than Koch so those are not as accurate   and why dont you all just shut the hell up and stop this because your gonna keep trying to proove your point and I am going to just keep going with mine and we are just gonna post back and forth so this is enough, no more of this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 again you fail to realize that most of those ppl have a hell of a lot more closing chances than Koch so those are not as accurate  and why dont you all just shut the hell up and stop this because your gonna keep trying to proove your point and I am going to just keep going with mine and we are just gonna post back and forth so this is enough, no more of this!! Closing chances have no effect on most of those stats. Most of them are averages and ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 What are you talking about? Koch was a dominate closer... and he still will be...  Last year he was  11-4 with 44 saves.. not to mention he pitched 93 Innings with 93 Strikeouts  Now I dont see why you can say he never had a lot of K's because that looks to me like he K'd someone every inning.. hmmm  Hes always had over 30 saves in every year he has pitched, and this will be the first that he doesnt.  You cant say that with more chances he would have blown them all because that pretty much what your saying.  I dont understand what your saying here, it just makes you look bad by saying that he has never been good when clearly he was a dominate closer. He has 300 ks in 350 inn, that licks period. Almost every other worthwile closer in the game k's more people per inning. For one example Armando Benitez, whose style is similar to Botch, hard straight fastball pitcher, k's a s***load more I'm sure. Comparing Marte's saves is silly since he wasn't closing in most of those apperences. He throws more pitches per inning than any other closer(not a good sign). Even if he had another career year, he still couln't hold Marte's jockstrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 If....if...if..if he had more chances, this MAY happen...can't say that.. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then everyday would be like Christmas. Naturally that was in responce to that one clown's assertion that Koch would have many more saves if he had more chances, of course that would equate to more blown aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 again you fail to realize that most of those ppl have a hell of a lot more closing chances than Koch so those are not as accurate  and why dont you all just shut the hell up and stop this because your gonna keep trying to proove your point and I am going to just keep going with mine and we are just gonna post back and forth so this is enough, no more of this!! and the thing about msg board is that EVERYONE has the right to post what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Cool but your all stupid... so post what you want, you just make yourselfs look dumber and dumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Cool but your all stupid... so post what you want, you just make yourselfs look dumber and dumber and you are soo kool and so all knowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Thanks man, that was classy.. I would have thought you woulda said something rude or something like that.. I underestimate you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Thanks man, that was classy.. I would have thought you woulda said something rude or something like that.. I underestimate you and the more you talk the more you show that you are nothing more than a punk, esp with the kool saying about the bat. Â yup you are showing you colors on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 and the more you talk the more you show that you are nothing more than a punk, esp with the kool saying about the bat. Â yup you are showing you colors on this. I believe the word is IRONY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Stick it LDF Â Im not even gonna bother wasting my time on you anymore... Yeah I am just some punk.. You got me.. I wish I had a bat and you were standing here cause I would blast you in the face with it... Oh no, am I a hooligan now? Come on, go ahead and say something else, you think your gonna bother me or something... haha... not likely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Stick it LDFÂ Im not even gonna bother wasting my time on you anymore... Yeah I am just some punk.. You got me.. I wish I had a bat and you were standing here cause I would blast you in the face with it... Oh no, am I a hooligan now? Come on, go ahead and say something else, you think your gonna bother me or something... haha... not likely! anytime you want, i will be in hou tx. i believe that is where you are from. Â and when i am in chi you can meet me on marshall blvd on 22nd. Â bring your bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 and the more you talk the more you show that you are nothing more than a punk, esp with the kool saying about the bat. Â yup you are showing you colors on this. I believe the word is IRONY. uh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Yep im from Texas.. if your down here Ill tell you where I live, you can come on by  what are you? Like 30 or something prolly some lame ass old man who thinks hes cool.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Stick it LDFÂ Im not even gonna bother wasting my time on you anymore... Yeah I am just some punk.. You got me.. I wish I had a bat and you were standing here cause I would blast you in the face with it... Oh no, am I a hooligan now? Come on, go ahead and say something else, you think your gonna bother me or something... haha... not likely! TOugh talk for a 5'0 100 lb dork, hiding behind a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 hahahahahaha 5'0 100 lbs? You think I am a midget or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.