White Sox Off-Season Catch All Thread

[maggsmaggs]

I like Homer Bailey too, but Alexei is more valuable. You could probably build a package around Escobar and get the deal done. (considering his stellar AFL numbers).

I doubt it. Escobar is good player, but his upside is still pretty low like a Neifi Perez-type. Escobar isn't a guy who would fetch you much as trade bait. You'd have to build around Viciedo most likely.

[pktmotion]

I doubt it. Escobar is good player, but his upside is still pretty low like a Neifi Perez-type. Escobar isn't a guy who would fetch you much as trade bait. You'd have to build around Viciedo most likely.

 

Yea, I was more or less trying to illustrate how much value Alexei has to our team and how there's absolutely no chance he gets traded.

 

I suggested a Quentin for Bailey and Herrera trade in another thread.

Edited December 5, 2010 by pktmotion

[SoxFan1]

SI_JonHeyman Konerko scheduled to meet with #chisox chairman reinsdorf tomorrow. Once they hug, thatll be a deal. Very close. Should be $13 mil per.

 

[maggsmaggs]

Yea, I was more or less trying to illustrate how much value Alexei has to our team and how there's absolutely no chance he gets traded.

 

I suggested a Quentin for Bailey and Herrera trade in another thread.

Oh yeah, I agree. Alexei is arguably the Sox's most valuable player after Konerko (if he stays).

[greg775]

I don't know how he could mention Cliff Lee and the White Sox.

We'd have to trade Buehrle and likely Edwin immediately to afford him.

[Marty34]

Yea, I was more or less trying to illustrate how much value Alexei has to our team and how there's absolutely no chance he gets traded.

 

I suggested a Quentin for Bailey and Herrera trade in another thread.

 

You don't give Ramirez away, just remember he's entering his 30 y.o. season, not 25. If you could get Bailey for him I'd do it and worry about the SS/3B spots later.

[knightni]

You're proposing Homer Bailey for Alexei Ramirez?

 

Are they including Jay Bruce?

 

[witesoxfan]

You don't give Ramirez away, just remember he's entering his 30 y.o. season, not 25. If you could get Bailey for him I'd do it and worry about the SS/3B spots later.

 

You know, I like Bailey, but this is absolute crazy talk. Cincinnati wouldn't be happier than if you proposed Alexei Ramirez, a top 5-7 SS in the entire game with a very team friendly contract still, for Homer Bailey, who, even with the promise, has still been nothing more than a 4.50 ERA pitcher. Alexei Ramirez also looks like he's going to be able to perform at like this for another 4-6 years, so I'm really not too worried about his age.

 

Bailey for Ramirez is awful, and not in the way a lot of trades are around here, but in that it's an absolutely terrible deal for the White Sox.

[LittleHurt05]

You know, I like Bailey, but this is absolute crazy talk. Cincinnati wouldn't be happier than if you proposed Alexei Ramirez, a top 5-7 SS in the entire game with a very team friendly contract still, for Homer Bailey, who, even with the promise, has still been nothing more than a 4.50 ERA pitcher. Alexei Ramirez also looks like he's going to be able to perform at like this for another 4-6 years, so I'm really not too worried about his age.

 

Bailey for Ramirez is awful, and not in the way a lot of trades are around here, but in that it's an absolutely terrible deal for the White Sox.

 

The infatuation with Homer Bailey around here is a tad bit ridiculous.

[Marty34]

You know, I like Bailey, but this is absolute crazy talk. Cincinnati wouldn't be happier than if you proposed Alexei Ramirez, a top 5-7 SS in the entire game with a very team friendly contract still, for Homer Bailey, who, even with the promise, has still been nothing more than a 4.50 ERA pitcher. Alexei Ramirez also looks like he's going to be able to perform at like this for another 4-6 years, so I'm really not too worried about his age.

 

Bailey for Ramirez is awful, and not in the way a lot of trades are around here, but in that it's an absolutely terrible deal for the White Sox.

 

I think you're overvaluing Ramirez. He's an okay player who plays a premium defensive position and there is definitely value in that. I don't know if the Reds would do a Bailey/Ramirez deal. Bailey has top-of-the-rotation stuff.

[ThunderBolt]

The infatuation with Homer Bailey around here is a tad bit ridiculous.

He's in the John Danks/Gavin Floyd mold, but with a slightly higher ceiling and insane stuff. I don't see what's not to like.

[maggsmaggs]

I think you're overvaluing Ramirez. He's an okay player who plays a premium defensive position and there is definitely value in that. I don't know if the Reds would do a Bailey/Ramirez deal. Bailey has top-of-the-rotation stuff.

Bailey hasn't had better than a 4.46 ERA in the National League. There is no way he is worth more than a top-5 shortstop in Major League Baseball. Does he have good potential? Yeah, but this isn't the Ace-in-the-making Homer Bailey. He has certainly lost some stuff. He averaged 92.7 on his fastball last year. That is definitely not the Bailey that was throwing 97 in the early part of his career. And he has had some injury issues that are worrisome. If the Reds asked KW for Alexei, I think KW just hangs up the phone instantly.

Edited December 5, 2010 by maggsmaggs

[Springfield Soxfan]

I don't know how he could mention Cliff Lee and the White Sox.

We'd have to trade Buehrle and likely Edwin immediately to afford him.

How many times have we heard that JR and KW will NOT give pitchers 5 years deals, there is no chance, unless it is something crazy like three years at $25 million per.

[SoxFan1]

I think you're overvaluing Ramirez. He's an okay player who plays a premium defensive position and there is definitely value in that. I don't know if the Reds would do a Bailey/Ramirez deal. Bailey has top-of-the-rotation stuff.

This is ridiculous. Ramirez not only should have won the Gold Glove, but he wont Silver Slugger at SS, is 29 and signed for cheap.

[witesoxfan]

I think you're overvaluing Ramirez. He's an okay player who plays a premium defensive position and there is definitely value in that. I don't know if the Reds would do a Bailey/Ramirez deal. Bailey has top-of-the-rotation stuff.

 

You think I am overvaluing Alexei Ramirez, yet in the same post mention that Homer Bailey has top of the rotation STUFF which doesn't say anything about how good he actually is.

 

Here is what I can tell you about Alexei Ramirez.

 

-he plays fantastic defense and a premium defensive position

-he hits for a good, not great average

-he hits for good, not great power

-he is fast, but not a base stealer

-he has shown some ability to be "clutch," and he does a lot of things to help teams win. He is not a corner stone, but he is probably the next level...perhaps you can call him a mini-building block?

 

Here is what I can tell you about Homer Bailey

-he has good stuff

-the Reds considered trading him for Jermaine Dye when Bailey actually had quite a bit of value and Jermaine Dye had 1 year left on his deal

-he's never pitched a full season in the majors

-he's never had a good season in the majors

-he hasn't had a real good year since 2006, which was the year (along with his draft position) that made people believe he was a super prospect.

 

I think Homer Bailey is a lot of talk, and there is nothing to support the idea that he is about to take the next step. Trading Alexei Ramirez, when the White Sox are going to end up spending somewhere around $80-100 million this offseason to try and win in the short-term, would be pretty motherf***ing stupid, wouldn't you agree? Because then the White Sox have to find someone to play SS, and there isn't much out there anymore.

 

People that say that Alexei Ramirez is one of the 2-3 most valuable members of the White Sox say so because they mean it and not because they are filling you full of s***. Shortstops who play fantastic defense and are good offensively are rather difficult to find. He's a keeper.

Edited December 5, 2010 by witesoxfan

[SoxAce]

Bailey hasn't had better than a 4.46 ERA in the National League. There is no way he is worth more than a top-5 shortstop in Major League Baseball. Does he have good potential? Yeah, but this isn't the Ace-in-the-making Homer Bailey. He has certainly lost some stuff. He averaged 92.7 on his fastball last year. That is definitely not the Bailey that was throwing 97 in the early part of his career. And he has had some injury issues that are worrisome. If the Reds asked KW for Alexei, I think KW just hangs up the phone instantly.

 

No way.. He'd ask for Jay Bruce.

[Rowand44]

I think you're overvaluing Ramirez. He's an okay player who plays a premium defensive position and there is definitely value in that. I don't know if the Reds would do a Bailey/Ramirez deal. Bailey has top-of-the-rotation stuff.

What now?

[Marty34]

People that say that Alexei Ramirez is one of the 2-3 most valuable members of the White Sox say so because they mean it and not because they are filling you full of s***. Shortstops who play fantastic defense and are good offensively are rather difficult to find. He's a keeper.

 

He's not "good" offensively, he's simply okay. I'd also argue that he isn't "fantastic" defensively. And mini-building blocks don't bat in the lower third of the lineup when they are in their late 20's.

[hi8is]

He's not "good" offensively, he's simply okay. I'd also argue that he isn't "fantastic" defensively. And mini-building blocks don't bat in the lower third of the lineup when they are in their late 20's.

Do you happen to have any Legos or Lincoln Logs i can borrow?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Do you happen to have any Legos or Lincoln Logs i can borrow?

 

How is it I don't have a clue WTF you're talking about 99.9% of the time and I still like you?

[witesoxfan]

He's not "good" offensively, he's simply okay. I'd also argue that he isn't "fantastic" defensively. And mini-building blocks don't bat in the lower third of the lineup when they are in their late 20's.

 

His .744 OPS was just below the league average, was 50 points above the league average for SS's in the MLB, and 75 points above the AL average for SS's. Relatively speaking, Alexei Ramirez is good offensively. If you compare him to a 1B, of course he's not going to look good, as their job is to hit the ball hard and to catch balls that are thrown to them. Defense becomes a priority with SS, because good ones can save you a ton of runs and are difficult to find. with regard to that defense, I am just going to assume you didn't watch many games, nor do you pay any attention to defensive statistics. Alexei Ramirez was quite easily in the top 3 best defenders at SS last year, and he looked like the absolute best to me. And he was still good offensively.

 

Finally, Gordon Beckham hit 9th for a good portion of the year last year, so that debunks the final piece of your post. Just because they have a manager who hits them that low, or that there happen to be better offensive options on the team doesn't change the fact that, or they aren't great offensively relative to the rest of the major leagues doesn't take away their overall ability. Sure, if you want to look at everything in a vacuum, Alexei Ramirez is simply "OK" offensively who has only had 1 great year defensively and he doesn't steal bases nor is he good enough to hit high in the order.

 

If you are so sure that Alexei Ramirez is simply "OK," I challenge you to find 5 other shortstops who you would rather have instead of him.

 

And Troy Tulowitski doesn't count.

[hi8is]

How is it I don't have a clue WTF you're talking about 99.9% of the time and I still like you?

What is Magic by The Pilot

[Jordan4life_2007]

What is Magic by The Pilot

 

I still have no clue what you're talking about. But you're cool with me.

[hi8is]

I still have no clue what you're talking about. But you're cool with me.

?

[Rowand44]

He's in the John Danks/Gavin Floyd mold, but with a slightly higher ceiling and insane stuff. I don't see what's not to like.

How so? Just because of age? Because he's certainly never come close to the production level of Floyd and Danks.