White Sox could be top 5 payroll team in 2011

[Balta1701]

I think they might sign a 1 RHP and LHP for the pen, and plug Carter and Infante in for the other spots.

I feel like I'd be really surprised if Carter got a shot to start the year. I'd be equally surprised if Infante didn't.

 

That said, they may be that strapped for funds that they roll the dice on him.

[Jack Parkman]

I feel like I'd be really surprised if Carter got a shot to start the year. I'd be equally surprised if Infante didn't.

 

That said, they may be that strapped for funds that they roll the dice on him.

Didn't Carter have a really good stint in the AFL this year? KW seems to put a lot of stock in AFL performances for prospects.

[joeynach]

I think they might sign a 1 RHP and LHP for the pen, and plug Carter and Infante in for the other spots.

 

Achillies heel anyone. Seriously without the ability to have a complete shut down bullpen this team will go no where.

[witesoxfan]

Achillies heel anyone. Seriously without the ability to have a complete shut down bullpen this team will go no where.

 

It could be. I think the offense will be good enough that if the bullpen falters, the offense will win their fair share of games and allow Williams to find the proper bullpen arm. The backend is still strong on paper with Thornton, Sale, and Santos. Maybe lightning strikes and the rest of the pieces fall into place. Who knows? But don't trade a highly valued piece for a bullpen arm at this point in time. There are always bullpen arms available and they can be acquired at virtually any time.

[joeynach]

It could be. I think the offense will be good enough that if the bullpen falters, the offense will win their fair share of games and allow Williams to find the proper bullpen arm. The backend is still strong on paper with Thornton, Sale, and Santos. Maybe lightning strikes and the rest of the pieces fall into place. Who knows? But don't trade a highly valued piece for a bullpen arm at this point in time. There are always bullpen arms available and they can be acquired at virtually any time.

 

Im not advocating that we make a trade, Im advocating that we need more, period. And personally, I like Santos, but I think part of his success was that no one had ever seen him before. I dont expect him to be as dominant the second time around. I was disappointed to see the sox let Putz go for 4 and 4.5M. There are not that many relievers, epecially via FA that you know are "shut down" guys that you can get for $4M. Look at what Benoit got, hell look at what we gave Linebrink and Dotel. Im concerned with where the bullpen depth is going to come from.

[Balta1701]

Im not advocating that we make a trade, Im advocating that we need more, period. And personally, I like Santos, but I think part of his success was that no one had ever seen him before. I dont expect him to be as dominant the second time around. I was disappointed to see the sox let Putz go for 4 and 4.5M. There are not that many relievers, epecially via FA that you know are "shut down" guys that you can get for $4M. Look at what Benoit got, hell look at what we gave Linebrink and Dotel. Im concerned with where the bullpen depth is going to come from.

Really? I've got to disagree on Santos. He was doing what a whole lot of really good bullpen guys do; pairing a really good slider with a low-mid 90's fastball with some movement on it. That's usually a formula for success out of the bullpen.

[joeynach]

Really? I've got to disagree on Santos. He was doing what a whole lot of really good bullpen guys do; pairing a really good slider with a low-mid 90's fastball with some movement on it. That's usually a formula for success out of the bullpen.

 

I wouldnt overlook the league adjust factor after a players 1st season.......says Gordon Beckham, Zach Duke, Dontrelle Willis, Bobby Crosby, etc

[witesoxfan]

I wouldnt overlook the league adjust factor after a players 1st season.......says Gordon Beckham, Zach Duke, Dontrelle Willis, Bobby Crosby, etc

 

And I wouldn't overlook the fact that Sergio Santos had barely pitched prior to last season, and he had no idea what his future held in December of last year. At this point in time, he now has a full offseason to work and study pitching, to hone his control and command, and to do any other number of things. And I also wouldn't overlook the fact that, besides ANY of that, Sergio Santos is a relief pitcher who has a 95 MPH fastball and a ridiculous slider. Zach Duke surely didn't have that, and once Dontrelle Willis lost the ability to control the strike zone, he got knocked around. Bobby Crosby is an awful, awful player (I don't even understand the reason for bringing it up...he hit 22 homers his rookie year but wasn't good otherwise, he was OK his second year but got hurt, and he's been busy getting hurt or sucking at baseball ever since that point). Beckham struggled, as young players tend to do, but he bounced back pretty quickly and had a monstrous second half.

 

 

[Jerksticks]

And I wouldn't overlook the fact that Sergio Santos had barely pitched prior to last season, and he had no idea what his future held in December of last year. At this point in time, he now has a full offseason to work and study pitching, to hone his control and command, and to do any other number of things. And I also wouldn't overlook the fact that, besides ANY of that, Sergio Santos is a relief pitcher who has a 95 MPH fastball and a ridiculous slider. Zach Duke surely didn't have that, and once Dontrelle Willis lost the ability to control the strike zone, he got knocked around. Bobby Crosby is an awful, awful player (I don't even understand the reason for bringing it up...he hit 22 homers his rookie year but wasn't good otherwise, he was OK his second year but got hurt, and he's been busy getting hurt or sucking at baseball ever since that point). Beckham struggled, as young players tend to do, but he bounced back pretty quickly and had a monstrous second half.

 

I agree. It's unlikely that a man with his stuff has hit any sort of ceiling yet.

[Balta1701]

I wouldnt overlook the league adjust factor after a players 1st season.......says Gordon Beckham, Zach Duke, Dontrelle Willis, Bobby Crosby, etc

Those are an interesting selection of names you've got there, because most of them I can give reasons why they started struggling totally unrelated to the league adapting. Beckham has some weird mental things going on and his swing was screwed up all last year. Bobby Crosby couldn't stay healthy to save his life. DTrain's fastball weakened and his offspeed stuff became less effective.

[witesoxfan]

Those are an interesting selection of names you've got there, because most of them I can give reasons why they started struggling totally unrelated to the league adapting. Beckham has some weird mental things going on and his swing was screwed up all last year. Bobby Crosby couldn't stay healthy to save his life. DTrain's fastball weakened and his offspeed stuff became less effective.

 

Eh, I'd say that Beckham's .310/.369/.516/.885 line in his final 238 plate appearances would suggest that it wasn't screwed up all year. Just have to hope that the hand injury doesn't rear its head this year.

[Balta1701]

Eh, I'd say that Beckham's .310/.369/.516/.885 line in his final 238 plate appearances would suggest that it wasn't screwed up all year. Just have to hope that the hand injury doesn't rear its head this year.

He finally got stuff figured out after June, but you get my point. It wasn't just the league adapting to him.

[witesoxfan]

He finally got stuff figured out after June, but you get my point. It wasn't just the league adapting to him.

 

Absolutely no argument from me there. Even if it is the league adapting to him, he can adapt right back at them and start improving his weaknesses at the plate too.

[Steve9347]

[southsider2k5]

And I wouldn't overlook the fact that Sergio Santos had barely pitched prior to last season, and he had no idea what his future held in December of last year. At this point in time, he now has a full offseason to work and study pitching, to hone his control and command, and to do any other number of things. And I also wouldn't overlook the fact that, besides ANY of that, Sergio Santos is a relief pitcher who has a 95 MPH fastball and a ridiculous slider. Zach Duke surely didn't have that, and once Dontrelle Willis lost the ability to control the strike zone, he got knocked around. Bobby Crosby is an awful, awful player (I don't even understand the reason for bringing it up...he hit 22 homers his rookie year but wasn't good otherwise, he was OK his second year but got hurt, and he's been busy getting hurt or sucking at baseball ever since that point). Beckham struggled, as young players tend to do, but he bounced back pretty quickly and had a monstrous second half.

 

He is also a guy who faded last year because his arm hasn't been anywhere close to developed yet. He is going to be making big year over year strides as his arm matures into its new role.

[ScottyDo]

He is also a guy who faded last year because his arm hasn't been anywhere close to developed yet. He is going to be making big year over year strides as his arm matures into its new role.

Side note, I love how we talk about a pitcher's arm like it's a separate entity. It's kind of like how I talk about my wing-wang.

[southsider2k5]

Side note, I love how we talk about a pitcher's arm like it's a separate entity. It's kind of like how I talk about my wing-wang.

 

So are you saying you are still developing your wing-wang?

[ScottyDo]

So are you saying you are still developing your wing-wang?

It can still grow!!!! ........

[joeynach]

UPDATE

 

My calculations have the White Sox committed at $108.85M to 16 players for 2011.

 

This includes: Buehrle (14M) + Peavy (16M) + Jackson (8.35M) + Floyd (5M) + Thornton (3M) + Crain (4.3M) + Castro (1.2M) + AJ (2M) + Vizquel (1.75M) + Viciedo (1.25M) + Ramirez (2.75M) + Konerko (12M) + Teahen (4.75M) + Rios (12M) + Pierre (8.5M) + Dunn (12M)

 

This does not include arbitration eligibility for Quentin (4.5M estimate), Danks (5.5M estimate), Pena (2.2M estimate).

This does not include team controlled salaries for Sale (400K estimate ), Morel (400K estimate), Santos (400K estimate), Lillibridge (400K estimate), Beckham (600K estimate), Gregor Infante/Internal Bullpen (400K estimate).

This includes the break even money coming in for Pierre (+3.5M) and the money going out for Linebrink (-3.5M).

 

2011 Payroll Commitments + Estimations = $123.65 (25 Players)

[chw42]

UPDATE

 

My calculations have the White Sox committed at $108.85M to 16 players for 2011.

 

This includes: Buehrle (14M) + Peavy (16M) + Jackson (8.35M) + Floyd (5M) + Thornton (3M) + Crain (4.3M) + Castro (1.2M) + AJ (2M) + Vizquel (1.75M) + Viciedo (1.25M) + Ramirez (2.75M) + Konerko (12M) + Teahen (4.75M) + Rios (12M) + Pierre (8.5M) + Dunn (12M)

 

This does not include arbitration eligibility for Quentin (4.5M estimate), Danks (5.5M estimate), Pena (2.2M estimate).

This does not include team controlled salaries for Sale (400K estimate ), Morel (400K estimate), Santos (400K estimate), Lillibridge (400K estimate), Beckham (600K estimate), Gregor Infante/Internal Bullpen (400K estimate).

This includes the break even money coming in for Pierre (+3.5M) and the money going out for Linebrink (-3.5M).

 

2011 Payroll Commitments + Estimations = $123.65 (25 Players)

 

This has to be the highest payroll in team history. I think 08 was pretty close to this figure, but wasn't that around $121 million with money from the Phillies for Thome and some other stuff?

Edited December 16, 2010 by chw42

[justBLAZE]

This has to be the highest payroll in team history. I think 08 was pretty close to this figure, but wasn't that around $121 million with money from the Phillies for Thome and some other stuff?

 

Yup, somewhere I read today it is/will be the highest by 12 million pending a salary dump move of course.

[joeynach]

This has to be the highest payroll in team history. I think 08 was pretty close to this figure, but wasn't that around $121 million with money from the Phillies for Thome and some other stuff?

 

My spreadsheet goes back to 2007. For 2008 I had total Guaranteed Payroll of about $117.3M. I believe Philly was paying us about 22M for Thome which was broken up for 7.3M in 06, 07, 08. So that would put 08 payroll at about $110M. My projections show this year is going to be about $123 so about $13M more than 2008. Record payroll indeed!