Winter Meeting Buzz

[Lillian]

Then the highest priority is not having runners on base.

 

No, it is still the highest priority for the lead off hitter, but Pierre does not excel at that.

I would not expect him to have an OBP higher than his average for the last several years, which is around .330, although he did exceed that last year.

 

I've beaten this "dead horse" enough. Let's just chaulk it up to a difference in philosophy about baseball.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure that we won't have a chance to see anyone other than Pierre leading off, unless he is hurt or traded.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ugh, again with the leadoff hitter thing.

 

You do not build a team by selecting players for lineup slots. You build the team with the best offensively players you can (fitting your general plan, ballpark, etc.), and THEN make the lineup you think will work best. No, Pierre is not Ricky Henderson. No, he won't get on base at a .400 clip. But given the players the Sox have, no one else really makes any better sense right now. You do not go out and acquire a "leadoff hitter".

 

[Lillian]

Ugh, again with the leadoff hitter thing.

 

You do not build a team by selecting players for lineup slots. You build the team with the best offensively players you can (fitting your general plan, ballpark, etc.), and THEN make the lineup you think will work best. No, Pierre is not Ricky Henderson. No, he won't get on base at a .400 clip. But given the players the Sox have, no one else really makes any better sense right now. You do not go out and acquire a "leadoff hitter".

 

I agree. The Sox don't need to acquire a lead off hitter. My argument starts with the need to improve the outfield defense, while retaining Quentin, who no longer has the option to be the DH.

If Quentin is in the outfield, he should be in Left. Then you need a better outfielder to play RF, or move Rios to RF, and play a better fielder in CF.

 

Pierre has no place in that scenario. However, if the outfield addition can provide some offensive production, then you have the luxury of Rios leading off.

That is how I got there.

 

What is your suggestion?

[spiderman]

Now that the White Sox are probably done making in the free agent market, how do see Williams addressing the bullpen? It's probably not likely that they add a closer with Sale, Thornton and Santos probably the in-house candidates, but they probably will need to add 2 more decent arms to the bullpen for next season, and Williams has already mentioned being "creative" in a trade.

 

What do you think he's got on mind? Quentin? If he moves him, how do they fill that hole?

[witesoxfan]

I agree. The Sox don't need to acquire a lead off hitter. My argument starts with the need to improve the outfield defense, while retaining Quentin, who no longer has the option to be the DH.

If Quentin is in the outfield, he should be in Left. Then you need a better outfielder to play RF, or move Rios to RF, and play a better fielder in CF.

 

Pierre has no place in that scenario. However, if the outfield addition can provide some offensive production, then you have the luxury of Rios leading off.

That is how I got there.

 

What is your suggestion?

 

My suggestion would be to leave it as is and not make it so complicated. You are going to be hard-pressed to find a better defensive arrangement than Pierre-Rios-Quentin. Pierre was fantastic defensively last year, Rios was good, but not great, and Quentin was awful. The only way logical way you can improve that is to get rid of Quentin, because even if you move him to LF, he's still in the outfield, and he's still bad (and I have a hunch, though it may be incorrect, that most flyballs go to left and left center, so you are going to want the superior defender out there anyways)

 

 

[Lillian]

I'm still hoping that the Yankees spend big on Crawford. That should motivate them to dump Granderson and his contract.

The Sox could then make an effort to acquire him, if they could dump Pierre and Teahen, and their salaries, which would pay for Granderson.

 

There is your new leadoff hitter, and centerfielder.

 

However, I'd settle for any good defensive outfielder, with a decent bat.

I just don't like an outfield of Pierre, Rios and Quentin.

Carlos is fine in Left, with Rios and a good glove roaming the rest of the outfield.

[witesoxfan]

Now that the White Sox are probably done making in the free agent market, how do see Williams addressing the bullpen? It's probably not likely that they add a closer with Sale, Thornton and Santos probably the in-house candidates, but they probably will need to add 2 more decent arms to the bullpen for next season, and Williams has already mentioned being "creative" in a trade.

 

What do you think he's got on mind? Quentin? If he moves him, how do they fill that hole?

 

I could see him trying to acquire a top notch reliever, such as Heath Bell, or perhaps taking on a guy like Francisco Rodriguez (assuming the Mets eat some of his salary).

 

I also don't think he's going to move Quentin. He's stated that he's pretty much done moving guys off the major league roster unless something crazy comes up.

[Lillian]

My suggestion would be to leave it as is and not make it so complicated. You are going to be hard-pressed to find a better defensive arrangement than Pierre-Rios-Quentin. Pierre was fantastic defensively last year, Rios was good, but not great, and Quentin was awful. The only way logical way you can improve that is to get rid of Quentin, because even if you move him to LF, he's still in the outfield, and he's still bad (and I have a hunch, though it may be incorrect, that most flyballs go to left and left center, so you are going to want the superior defender out there anyways)

 

Would you be satisfied with Quentin in Left, Rios in CF, and Andruw Jones in Right?

That is not only a decent defensive outfield, but completes a very good team defense, with Carlos being the only weak link.

You don't have to ask me who I'd have lead off in that scenario. I think you know the answer.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

I'm still hoping that the Yankees spend big on Crawford. That should motivate them to dump Granderson and his contract.

The Sox could then make an effort to acquire him, if they could dump Pierre and Teahen, and their salaries, which would pay for Granderson.

 

There is your new leadoff hitter, and centerfielder.

 

However, I'd settle for any good defensive outfielder, with a decent bat.

I just don't like an outfield of Pierre, Rios and Quentin.

Carlos is fine in Left, with Rios and a good glove roaming the rest of the outfield.

 

Who are you going to play in place of Granderson against left handed pitching? Surely you don't want a guy who has put up a career line of .215/.274/.346/.621 against lefties leading off against Francisco Liriano. And who are you going to give up to acquire Granderson anyways? It's not as if the Yankees are going to give him away to the first team that calls. And how do you intend to get any value at all out of Pierre and Teahen? Pierre is a mediocre hitter who can get on base but isn't the kind of guy a team is going to give up much more than two AAAA pitchers for, and Teahen is frankly awful and the Sox would struggle to find takers for him even if they ate half of his contract.

 

Beyond any of that, any player who has a good bat and can play a good CF is immediately worth about $8-10 million on the open market, or a team gets lucky (like the Giants with Andres Torres). That's why Juan Pierre got the contract he did and why Torii Hunter got almost $20 million a year. Guys who can hit and play a premium defensive position get paid.

 

Again, it's simple on paper but much, much more complicated when actually trying to maneuver the pieces into place.

[witesoxfan]

Would you be satisfied with Quentin in Left, Rios in CF, and Andruw Jones in Right?

That is not only a decent defensive outfield, but completes a very good team defense, with Carlos being the only weak link.

You don't have to ask me who I'd have lead off in that scenario. I think you know the answer.

 

No. Andruw Jones didn't play full time last year with the Sox because he is too fragile at this point in his career to play everyday. Once he did start swinging the bat everyday for about 2-3 weeks, his bat went ice cold. His OPS was around like 1.000 after April, and it ended up at like .750 after May because of a minor injury and him simply cooling down.

 

I do really like Jones, and he would be a great backup for the Sox if they were to somehow acquire Curtis Granderson; he'd be a good backup regardless of whether or not they brought in Granderson. I still don't see that as a possibility though, because I think the Angels are going to sign Crawford, and that some other team would outbid the Sox for Granderson (or Swisher).

[witesoxfan]

I was surprised to see that Joe Cool hadn't made a post about this...

According to Jack Magruder of FOXSportsArizona.com, a trade market for Gerardo Parra is developing.

 

According to Magruder, the D-Backs would be open to moving him in order to balance their lefty-heavy starting lineup. The Diamondbacks have also gauged the interest in Brandon Allen, though Parra is more likely to be dealt. The 23-year-old outfielder batted just .261/.308/.371 with three homers, 30 RBI and a 679 OPS, but is a plus-defender.

 

[Pale Sox]

I don't know if this has been posted already, but it looks like some trades are on the horizon:

 

"We have to go into a holding pattern right now, just for a minute, and try to be as creative as possible on the trade front," Williams told reporters at the winter meetings. "The free agent front is a little expensive for us right now in filling those needs, so we have to try another way. That's all right. We've done it before."

 

The quote is from ESPN Chicago. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/colu...&id=5900092

[chunk23]

With AJ back for two more years, I would expect Flowers to be traded pretty soon. Viciedo, as much as I love him, doesn't really have a position either.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I was surprised to see that Joe Cool hadn't made a post about this...

 

I was too busy fapping my brains out.

 

Let's give 'em Chris Sale.

[Jerksticks]

I agree. The Sox don't need to acquire a lead off hitter. My argument starts with the need to improve the outfield defense, while retaining Quentin, who no longer has the option to be the DH.

If Quentin is in the outfield, he should be in Left. Then you need a better outfielder to play RF, or move Rios to RF, and play a better fielder in CF.

 

Pierre has no place in that scenario. However, if the outfield addition can provide some offensive production, then you have the luxury of Rios leading off.

That is how I got there.

 

What is your suggestion?

 

This is exactly how I see it as well; Pierre should not be starting on this team. Pierre doesn't seem like a KW-type player so I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen there. He's just too weak. If he stays I think he should bat 9th so he's the leadoff hitter 3 times per game instead of 4.

[witesoxfan]

This is exactly how I see it as well; Pierre should not be starting on this team. Pierre doesn't seem like a KW-type player so I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen there. He's just too weak. If he stays I think he should bat 9th so he's the leadoff hitter 3 times per game instead of 4.

 

I think Pierre is exactly a Williams player. He fits everything Williams has ever really looked for in a leadoff hitter - hits for a good enough average, can take a pitch and walk a little bit, and steals a lot of bases. The fact that he doesn't hit for a lot of power or that he does play good defense are generally irrelevant.

[nitetrain8601]

I'm fine with Pierre batting leadoff as long as he can get on base. If he can't drop him in the order. Either way the Sox lineup is good enough. If you can get a clear upgrade, do it, but don't deal just to deal.

 

As far as the trade front, I could see Flowers and a lower level player getting dealt for bullpen arms.

[nitetrain8601]

I think Pierre is exactly a Williams player. He fits everything Williams has ever really looked for in a leadoff hitter - hits for a good enough average, can take a pitch and walk a little bit, and steals a lot of bases. The fact that he doesn't hit for a lot of power or that he does play good defense are generally irrelevant.

 

I agree. Pierre is a KW type of guy.

[Jerksticks]

I agree. Pierre is a KW type of guy.

 

Disagree. He seems more like an Ozzieball type of guy. .330 getting the most ABs with no extra-base possibility doesn't work for me. Works for me in the 9 hole but not at #1 again. I understand your side of the coin so I'll agree to disagree.

[knightni]

AJ on MLB right now, sporting the stache

It was just Movember.

[Pale Sox]

I'm fine with Pierre batting leadoff as long as he can get on base. If he can't drop him in the order. Either way the Sox lineup is good enough. If you can get a clear upgrade, do it, but don't deal just to deal.

 

As far as the trade front, I could see Flowers and a lower level player getting dealt for bullpen arms.

I think a deal with the Dodgers makes sense. They need some catching depth, and have plenty of bullpen arms....Schlichting, Jansen, Lindblom, etc.

[Frank_Thomas]

I was thinking Dodgers as well, but I'm thinking Jonathan Bronxton. We always match up well the dodgers. I think a flowers/Viciedo and another throw in gets it done. Then I think we NEED to get a athletic high on base and average guy in RF. Whether it's a package with CQ or trading him for prospects for a RF.

 

Then KW and Coop will have a pow-wow and find a few diamonds in the rough to piece the bullpen together till June or July.

 

Anyone have a list of closers or the like of closers that may be available via trade?

[Pale Sox]

I was thinking Dodgers as well, but I'm thinking Jonathan Bronxton. We always match up well the dodgers. I think a flowers/Viciedo and another throw in gets it done. Then I think we NEED to get a athletic high on base and average guy in RF. Whether it's a package with CQ or trading him for prospects for a RF.

 

Then KW and Coop will have a pow-wow and find a few diamonds in the rough to piece the bullpen together till June or July.

 

Anyone have a list of closers or the like of closers that may be available via trade?

I've thought about Broxton too, but he's due $7MM in 2011 so i don't think we can afford him unless we shed some payroll in the deal.

 

Flowers + Quentin + Teahen for Broxton.

 

Seems like a lot, but Teahen has negative trade value, which kind of evens things up.

[TomPickle]

The last thing the Dodgers need to do is get worse defensively in the OF.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've thought about Broxton too, but he's due $7MM in 2011 so i don't think we can afford him unless we shed some payroll in the deal.

 

Flowers + Quentin + Teahen for Broxton.

 

Seems like a lot, but Teahen has negative trade value, which kind of evens things up.

 

lol. Yeah, the Dodgers would jump at that.