Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 10:45 AM) They better hope that Vitters, Jackson, Cashner, and others pan out (and you know how often Cubs prospects pan out). If the Cards lose Pujols, they should take the money they had designated for him and go after Prince. Funny thing is that with all of this, the Reds have a chance to have the best team in that division if they can make some smart moves in the next few years. How is that an intelligent move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 In the end, the Cardinals are going to work out a deal with a buy-out past Pujols' age 37 or 38 season. Albert won't play anywhere but St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) In the end, the Cardinals are going to work out a deal with a buy-out past Pujols' age 37 or 38 season. Albert won't play anywhere but St. Louis. I just don't know why Pujols would sign that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:08 AM) I just don't know why Pujols would sign that. It's just a gut feeling. St. Louis is just different in terms of baseball. We all know Albert loves it there and I don't see him leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 It's just a gut feeling. St. Louis is just different in terms of baseball. We all know Albert loves it there and I don't see him leaving. Â Then why go through all this drama if it isn't about the money? If he is really that ethical and enjoys it so much he could have found a middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 12:22 PM) Then why go through all this drama if it isn't about the money? If he is really that ethical and enjoys it so much he could have found a middle ground. Why is it Pujols's fault that the Cardinals want him to take a discount? If he's worth that much to that franchise, if he's so important that they've built their whole 5 year plan around keeping him, why wouldn't they step up and do what it takes to keep him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Why is it Pujols's fault that the Cardinals want him to take a discount? If he's worth that much to that franchise, if he's so important that they've built their whole 5 year plan around keeping him, why wouldn't they step up and do what it takes to keep him? Â I'm not saying that is bad either. I'm just saying that this is a negotiation between 2 parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:22 AM) Then why go through all this drama if it isn't about the money? If he is really that ethical and enjoys it so much he could have found a middle ground. Well, you are allowed to negotiate and get the most out of your team, but the guy isn't leaving the Cardinals. This "deadline" is a crock of s*** as well... if the Cards come up with the numbers in July, Albert will take the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Tim K was on the radio this morning and he said that the Cardinals have been saving and planning for this day and there is no way Pujols leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Why is it Pujols's fault that the Cardinals want him to take a discount? If he's worth that much to that franchise, if he's so important that they've built their whole 5 year plan around keeping him, why wouldn't they step up and do what it takes to keep him? Â Have you heard what their offer is? I haven't seen it anywhere. And part of the answer to your question about the 5 year plan is that he supposedly wants 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) Tim K was on the radio this morning and he said that the Cardinals have been saving and planning for this day and there is no way Pujols leaves. Â That has got to be true. The Cardinals are too good of an organization for it not to be, regardless of whether it happens this week or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:41 AM) Have you heard what their offer is? I haven't seen it anywhere. And part of the answer to your question about the 5 year plan is that he supposedly wants 10 years. I heard it was about half of what he wanted, so I'm just assuming it was somewhere around 5/150 or in that neighborhood, possibly 6 or 7 years with a little less average per year. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) Have you heard what their offer is? I haven't seen it anywhere. And part of the answer to your question about the 5 year plan is that he supposedly wants 10 years. All we know is that the 2 sides are so far apart in concept that there's been almost no reason for them to talk, and that Pujols wants an A-Rod style deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Why is it Pujols's fault that the Cardinals want him to take a discount? If he's worth that much to that franchise, if he's so important that they've built their whole 5 year plan around keeping him, why wouldn't they step up and do what it takes to keep him? Â He can do what he wants. He also has to be prepared for people's response for asking for an ARod contract, and possibly leaving the only place he has ever played. If I am a franchise in St Louis's place, I am not about to cripple my team for something like 5 to 10 years to sign Albert. A place like St Louis cannot afford to have something like half of their team salary wrapped up in two players, and still be a viable team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) He can do what he wants. He also has to be prepared for people's response for asking for an ARod contract, and possibly leaving the only place he has ever played. If I am a franchise in St Louis's place, I am not about to cripple my team for something like 5 to 10 years to sign Albert. A place like St Louis cannot afford to have something like half of their team salary wrapped up in two players, and still be a viable team. There's a lot of things worth replying to here. Â 1. Won't the Cardinals be crippled for 5-ish years if they don't sign Albert? Â 2. If he were to leave...I have difficulty thinking that the response would be a Lebron-like response, barring a TV special of some sort. Leaving for more money is one thing; people would be just as angry at management for not offering him the deal that he got elsewhere as they would be at him for taking it. Â 3. (A question I can't answer)...how much does team revenue drop if that team falls back to the back of the division for 3-4 years while they rebuild, loses LaRussa, and has to deal with Holliday's contract being their big mistake? They don't have the pieces to do a rapid reload if they lose Albert unless they sell Wainright, Carpenter, and Rasmus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) There's a lot of things worth replying to here. 1. Won't the Cardinals be crippled for 5-ish years if they don't sign Albert?  2. If he were to leave...I have difficulty thinking that the response would be a Lebron-like response, barring a TV special of some sort. Leaving for more money is one thing; people would be just as angry at management for not offering him the deal that he got elsewhere as they would be at him for taking it.  3. (A question I can't answer)...how much does team revenue drop if that team falls back to the back of the division for 3-4 years while they rebuild, loses LaRussa, and has to deal with Holliday's contract being their big mistake? They don't have the pieces to do a rapid reload if they lose Albert unless they sell Wainright, Carpenter, and Rasmus. They wouldn't have to rebuild at all though. They'd still have a very nice rotation in place and have a lot of extra money to work with to fill Albert's void and still be able to fill whatever else they need to at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) They wouldn't have to rebuild at all though. They'd still have a very nice rotation in place and have a lot of extra money to work with to fill Albert's void and still be able to fill whatever else they need to at the time. Chris Carpenter is also a free agent after this season. They'll still have Wainright and Garcia but Wainright gets more expensive. They're paying Kyle Lohse $12 million in 2012. Ryan Franklin is a FA after 2011. Jake Westbrook gets $8.5 million in 2010. Wainright, Garcia, Lohse, and Westbrook isn't what I'd call a "very nice" rotation. It might be serviceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) There's a lot of things worth replying to here. 1. Won't the Cardinals be crippled for 5-ish years if they don't sign Albert?  2. If he were to leave...I have difficulty thinking that the response would be a Lebron-like response, barring a TV special of some sort. Leaving for more money is one thing; people would be just as angry at management for not offering him the deal that he got elsewhere as they would be at him for taking it.  3. (A question I can't answer)...how much does team revenue drop if that team falls back to the back of the division for 3-4 years while they rebuild, loses LaRussa, and has to deal with Holliday's contract being their big mistake? They don't have the pieces to do a rapid reload if they lose Albert unless they sell Wainright, Carpenter, and Rasmus.  And if they resign Pujols, they can probably kiss all of the free agents they have good-bye because they will be paying an additional $15 million a year or so for the same thing they already had, if not less as he gets older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 03:11 PM) And if they resign Pujols, they can probably kiss all of the free agents they have good-bye because they will be paying an additional $15 million a year or so for the same thing they already had, if not less as he gets older. We're just making the case that the Cards should have been smart and offered him 10/$250 about 3 years ago. Â Now that they've let it get to this point, we can just go back and forth; it's a no-win situation for them. Lose Pujols, wind up rebuilding with a weak team and little minor league help, plus probably lose a good chunk of ticket sale revenue from an angry fanbase. Sign him, and handicap the franchise financially if his performance declines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Cards reportedly offer Albert 8 years, $240 million via Heyman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 16, 2011 -> 03:22 AM) Cards reportedly offer Albert 8 years, $240 million via Heyman. Â He would be nuts not to take this deal. Sadly, it seems like he's determined to get 10/300 from someone. Edited February 16, 2011 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) Cards reportedly offer Albert 8 years, $240 million via Heyman. I'm hard pressed to find a team that is going to give him his 10/30 next year, if that's the real offer, I think he's listening to the wrong people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 09:25 PM) He would be nuts not to take this deal. Sadly, it seems like he's determined to get 10/300 from someone. Â I just read the story on cnnsi.com. It was an 8 year deal but didn't seem like $240, just said an excess of $200 mil. I honestly think Stl is in a lose/lose situation. Pujols is not going to give them the hometown discount so it's either sign him to the $300 mil deal and not have money to pay the rest of your better players when they need to be resigned or let Pujols go (very possibly to the Cubs). Â I still think Stl gives in and pays him the #300 mil next Winter because the Cubs and Angels are very very real possibilities. The Cubs are almost set up perfectly to acquire Pujols with close to 60 mil coming off the books next year and still be able to add another guy or two and the Angels owner might finally decide to go all in and get his guy since he's fallen short on Texiera, Werth and Crawford the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) Cards reportedly offer Albert 8 years, $240 million via Heyman. Â They were reporting 8/200 this morning on the score. If the $240 is true, I go back to my greedy bastard feelings and am pretty content about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 15, 2011 -> 09:22 PM) Cards reportedly offer Albert 8 years, $240 million via Heyman. New offer or is that what he turned down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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