2011 White Sox Catch-All Thread

[greg775]

At least the Sox record is starting to resemble the season they had.

This team was WAY s***tier than .500, now the record is starting to reflect how bad this team is.

[Dick Allen]

At least the Sox record is starting to resemble the season they had.

This team was WAY s***tier than .500, now the record is starting to reflect how bad this team is.

The only reason they were anywhere near .500 was Ozzie and his managing like the magician he is. Now the Marlins are going to give him 4 years and probably have some sort of ceremony like when the Heat signed the 3 dopes last year. Probably at least half of the 150 people that go to Marlins games will show up. Ozzie is going to be collecting rings in Miami and Sox fans will have a team that consistently finishes in 4th and 5th place.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The only reason they were anywhere near .500 was Ozzie and his managing like the magician he is. Now the Marlins are going to give him 4 years and probably have some sort of ceremony like when the Heat signed the 3 dopes last year. Probably at least half of the 150 people that go to Marlins games will show up. Ozzie is going to be collecting rings in Miami and Sox fans will have a team that consistently finishes in 4th and 5th place.

 

You didn't hear? It's been reported by multiple media outlets that Albert Pujols is most definitely NOT resigning with the Cardinals. The teams that are believed to be in the running for his services are the Cubs, Blue Jays, Nationals, Braves and Marlins. Albert is on record saying he will wait to see how the "Ozzie Guillen saga plays out" and then make a "Decision." But let's be honest. If the Marlins get Guillen then Albert, like LeBron, will take his talents to South Beach so he can win not one, not two, not three, not four, sheeetttttttt, not even five championships.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life

[elrockinMT]

Are we thinking Albert Pujols wants to be with Ozzie Guillen? If Miamai got both Ozzie and the King of Swat together they could be an exciting team again.

[Dick Allen]

Interesting, Sox hitters are 7th in the AL in team batting average. 11th in OPS. Sox pitchers are 8th in the AL in team ERA. Now why is Walker the biggest dope who ever lived, and Don Cooper a genius?

[JorgeFabregas]

Well, for one they play in a hitters' park. Where do they rank in OPS+ vs ERA +?

[Marty34]

Interesting, Sox hitters are 7th in the AL in team batting average. 11th in OPS. Sox pitchers are 8th in the AL in team ERA. Now why is Walker the biggest dope who ever lived, and Don Cooper a genius?

 

Because fans are stupid.

[Dick Allen]

Well, for one they play in a hitters' park. Where do they rank in OPS+ vs ERA +?

Most Sox pitchers pitch better at home vs. on the road. If that's the argument, considering the vast difference in regard these 2 are held, its time people realize if its Greg Walker's fault Adam Dunn is hitting .160, even if they think maybe he needs a different "voice", maybe its Don Cooper's fault Jake Peavy has a 4.60 ERA and Gavin Floyd hasn't been more consistent since 2008. If Cooper is the genius a lot of people here claim, some even going as far as saying he should be the next manager, then Greg Walker isn't nearly as stupid as the same people think.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Most Sox pitchers pitch better at home vs. on the road. If that's the argument, considering the vast difference in regard these 2 are held, its time people realize if its Greg Walker's fault Adam Dunn is hitting .160, even if they think maybe he needs a different "voice", maybe its Don Cooper's fault Jake Peavy has a 4.60 ERA and Gavin Floyd hasn't been more consistent since 2008. If Cooper is the genius a lot of people here claim, some even going as far as saying he should be the next manager, then Greg Walker isn't nearly as stupid as the same people think.

 

Jake's stuff has declined considerably from his SD days and he's as injury-prone as any pitcher in the game. Not sure how that's Cooper's fault. Floyd has been a league-average, or slightly above league-average, performer for four years now. Yeah, you want more. But it's not like he's been horrible. Same with Danks. What you see is what you get. He's not going to morph into Kershaw, Price or Hamels because he's simply not that good. Humber's easily exceeded pre-season expectations and Mark was having a fine year before this month. In other words, there's really nobody on the staff (maybe Thornton?) that you can look at and say they've severely underachieved under Cooper this year. This is obviously not the case with the offense. But there's no need to go there. The numbers speak for themselves.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

Jake's stuff has declined considerably from his SD days and he's as injury-prone as any pitcher in the game. Not sure how that's Cooper's fault. Floyd has been a league-average, or slightly above league-average, performer for four years now. Yeah, you want more. But it's not like he's been horrible. Same with Danks. What you see is what you get. He's not going to morph into Kershaw, Price or Hamels because he's simply not that good. Humber's easily exceeded pre-season expectations and Mark was having a fine year before this month. In other words, there's really nobody on the staff (maybe Thornton?) that you can look at and say they've severely underachieved under Cooper this year. This is obviously not the case with the offense. But there's no need to go there. The numbers speak for themselves.

 

 

Its always Walker's fault when position players don't hit. It should be Cooper's fault if they don't pitch well. Its all Cooper when Humber pitches well, but when he gets lit up, its just because he sucks.

 

I suppose what you are saying is Dunn and Rios, and Beckham are all on Walker, but if you look at it, guys like Pierre, Ramirez, Konerko, Quentin, Lillibridge, Castro, Morel, AJP have all performed at what you would expect, if not higher in a few cases. Of course, Peavy's skills have declined, but because Dunn is a hitter, you can't say that when you can just as easily blame the hitting coach.

 

Walker will be gone at the end of this year, but if the roster remains relatively the same, you will see he was not the problem.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Milkman delivers]

Its always Walker's fault when position players don't hit. It should be Cooper's fault if they don't pitch well. Its all Cooper when Humber pitches well, but when he gets lit up, its just because he sucks.

 

I suppose what you are saying is Dunn and Rios, and Beckham are all on Walker, but if you look at it, guys like Pierre, Ramirez, Konerko, Quentin, Lillibridge, Castro, Morel, AJP have all performed at what you would expect, if not higher in a few cases. Of course, Peavy's skills have declined, but because Dunn is a hitter, you can't say that when you can just as easily blame the hitting coach.

 

Walker will be gone at the end of this year, but if the roster remains relatively the same, you will see he was not the problem.

 

I know you mostly say these things because you don't like seeing so much praise for Cooper while Walker gets nothing but crap, and I'm aware that this is a bit of a cop out, but there's a reason that Cooper is considered to be one of the best pitching coaches in the game. When Walker's gone, he likely won't find another job as a hitting coach.

[chetkincaid]

Where's the game thread??

[Dick Allen]

I know you mostly say these things because you don't like seeing so much praise for Cooper while Walker gets nothing but crap, and I'm aware that this is a bit of a cop out, but there's a reason that Cooper is considered to be one of the best pitching coaches in the game. When Walker's gone, he likely won't find another job as a hitting coach.

He won't find one because he's not in the market for one. Where did you find all of the information he's considered bad all over the industry? The only time I have seen him called bad are message boards and call ins to talk radio.

[Balta1701]

He won't find one because he's not in the market for one. Where did you find all of the information he's considered bad all over the industry? The only time I have seen him called bad are message boards and call ins to talk radio.

One thing you can definitely say though is that if Don Cooper walked to the Yankees front office and said "I'm a free agent pitching coach, hire me" this offseason...Don Cooper would be the Yankees next pitching coach.

[Dick Allen]

One thing you can definitely say though is that if Don Cooper walked to the Yankees front office and said "I'm a free agent pitching coach, hire me" this offseason...Don Cooper would be the Yankees next pitching coach.

Definitely? Rothschild, who wasn't a free agent and never impressed me much, signed a 3 year $2 million contract with them last year. I wouldn't doubt Cooper could find a job, but I also think if Walker really wanted another one, he'd find one too. He's not nearly as lowly thought of in the baseball world as he is on White Sox message boards and postgame shows.

[greg775]

The only reason they were anywhere near .500 was Ozzie and his managing like the magician he is. Now the Marlins are going to give him 4 years and probably have some sort of ceremony like when the Heat signed the 3 dopes last year. Probably at least half of the 150 people that go to Marlins games will show up. Ozzie is going to be collecting rings in Miami and Sox fans will have a team that consistently finishes in 4th and 5th place.

 

 

You didn't hear? It's been reported by multiple media outlets that Albert Pujols is most definitely NOT resigning with the Cardinals. The teams that are believed to be in the running for his services are the Cubs, Blue Jays, Nationals, Braves and Marlins. Albert is on record saying he will wait to see how the "Ozzie Guillen saga plays out" and then make a "Decision." But let's be honest. If the Marlins get Guillen then Albert, like LeBron, will take his talents to South Beach so he can win not one, not two, not three, not four, sheeetttttttt, not even five championships.

 

Why are posts like yours good for a message board?

You just trying to bait me into fighting about Ozzie?

I make a simple point that the Sox record is finally starting to resemble the team's play and you come up with sarcastic trash about Ozzie.

Weak.

Edited September 18, 2011 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

Definitely? Rothschild, who wasn't a free agent and never impressed me much, signed a 3 year $2 million contract with them last year. I wouldn't doubt Cooper could find a job, but I also think if Walker really wanted another one, he'd find one too. He's not nearly as lowly thought of in the baseball world as he is on White Sox message boards and postgame shows.

 

And on the flip-side, you won't find anybody not named Ozzie, Konerko, Rongey, Hawk, Merkin and yourself that holds Walker in high regard. Whereas with Cooper, he's pretty well-respected outside of the White Sox organization. I've seen plenty of articles written about him detailing how he's been able to take perceived failures and help them turn their careers around. And these aren't from Whitesox.com. I'm not saying Cooper is the pitching coach messiah. But if ones of the two has to go, you won't find anybody outside of said group that will say Cooper should be fired and Walker should stay.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why are posts like yours good for a message board?

You just trying to bait me into fighting about Ozzie?

I make a simple point that the Sox record is finally starting to resemble the team's play and you come up with sarcastic trash about Ozzie.

Weak.

 

Didn't you say Ozzie would win 3 or 4 titles with Florida? Don't say crazy s*** like that and not expect mocking rebuttals. Even the way I pimp the man in my avy, I do so and have no problem with anybody who wants to fire back. And yes, the Blue Jays are still coming for everyone soon.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

And on the flip-side, you won't find anybody not named Ozzie, Konerko, Rongey, Hawk, Merkin and yourself that holds Walker in high regard. Whereas with Cooper, he's pretty well-respected outside of the White Sox organization. I've seen plenty of articles written about him detailing how he's been able to take perceived failures and help them turn their careers around. And these aren't from Whitesox.com. I'm not saying Cooper is the pitching coach messiah. But if ones of the two has to go, you won't find anybody outside of said group that will say Cooper should be fired and Walker should stay.

Just show me one statement by someone other than a fan that shows Greg Walker isn't highly respected.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just show me one statement by someone other than a fan that shows Greg Walker isn't highly respected.

 

No, what I meant is you're saying that it's only Sox fans that think Walker is not good at his job. I disagree because, like I said, it's not like Greg Walker has gotten any positive/national pub outside of the usual White Sox homers. Don Cooper's reputation stretches beyond White Sox land. Walker's doesn't.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life

[JorgeFabregas]

Most Sox pitchers pitch better at home vs. on the road. If that's the argument, considering the vast difference in regard these 2 are held, its time people realize if its Greg Walker's fault Adam Dunn is hitting .160, even if they think maybe he needs a different "voice", maybe its Don Cooper's fault Jake Peavy has a 4.60 ERA and Gavin Floyd hasn't been more consistent since 2008. If Cooper is the genius a lot of people here claim, some even going as far as saying he should be the next manager, then Greg Walker isn't nearly as stupid as the same people think.

4.00 ERA on the road, 4.12 at home.

 

Here's my OPS+ and ERA+ answer:

OPS+= 91 =11th

ERA+=105=5th

=above average pitching and below average hitting. So yes, it's the park.

Edited September 18, 2011 by JorgeFabregas

[Dick Allen]

No, what I meant is you're saying that it's only Sox fans that think Walker is not good at his job. I disagree because, like I said, it's not like Greg Walker has gotten any positive/national pub outside of the usual White Sox homers. Don Cooper's reputation stretches beyond White Sox land. Walker's doesn't.

You can't say it's not only Sox fans when you haven't seen one other source ripping him. No one. Certainly an ex player, if he had "listened" to Walker like is always suggested and screwed up his career and cost him millions, would have something bad to say. But there is nothing, only some praise. Aaron Rowand called him the best hitting coach he every played for, after he signed with SF.

 

Also Ozzie hurts the offensive numbers with his bunts, and his refusal to let guys hit 3-0. Finally he let it happen today and even Adam Dunn was able to get a hit.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

You can't say it's not only Sox fans when you haven't seen one other source ripping him. No one. Certainly an ex player, if he had "listened" to Walker like is always suggested and screwed up his career and cost him millions, would have something bad to say. But there is nothing, only some praise. Aaron Rowand called him the best hitting coach he every played for, after he signed with SF.

 

Also Ozzie hurts the offensive numbers with his bunts, and his refusal to let guys hit 3-0. Finally he let it happen today and even Adam Dunn was able to get a hit.

 

Well, until you come up with a non-Sox homer that can vouch for him, you can't keep comparing him to Cooper. I wouldn't mind a clean sweep of the coaching staff. But if only one can go, you best believe I'm hoping it's Walker. It's the no-brainer of no-brainers.

[Dick Allen]

Well, until you come up with a non-Sox homer that can vouch for him, you can't keep comparing him to Cooper. I wouldn't mind a clean sweep of the coaching staff. But if only one can go, you best believe I'm hoping it's Walker. It's the no-brainer of no-brainers.

I can compare him to Cooper all I want. Is Danks and Floyd's matching 4.42 ERA's what you were looking for this year? Peavy is almost 5.00. Buehrle is starting to get jacked around. You know when hitters do this who you blame. Just be consistent or start using some logic. There's 3 underachieving hitters on the Sox this year. Dunn, Rios and Beckham. If you really think that's, because of Greg Walker, I will be dissappointed in your baseball acumen.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can compare him to Cooper all I want. Is Danks and Floyd's matching 4.42 ERA's what you were looking for this year? Peavy is almost 5.00. Buehrle is starting to get jacked around. You know when hitters do this who you blame. Just be consistent or start using some logic. There's 3 underachieving hitters on the Sox this year. Dunn, Rios and Beckham. If you really think that's, because of Greg Walker, I will be dissappointed in your baseball acumen.

 

Is that what I wanted? Of course not. I hoped for more. But they're still league-average. Or to be more simplistic, there are quite a few pitchers worse than those two. You're grasping at straws with Mark over a few meaningless starts. And I've already explained my view on Peavy. If they were putting up Fausto Carmona type numbers, then you might have a point. Dunn, Rios, and Beckham have been deplorable. The worst of the worst. Fun bad. Cue the circus music bad. And the offense overall has been below average. The A's have scored more runs. That's pathetic. You won't find one reasonable baseball guy, or even random fan, that looks at the shortcomings of this year's team and comes to the conclusion that the pitching was what doomed them. The offensive futility is by far the bigger culprit.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jordan4life