Even if you assume Mark tried to pitch until his 40's, his career arc isn't looking as pretty.

Have you looked at M-56's numbers for this season before saying that?

There's a question for you, if Dunn gets to 500, is he in the HOF? He's one of the best power hitters of the era, but that's all he was good at. Career average of .250, bad defender, gonna be a DH the next few seasons. He has never been in the playoffs, has never even finished top 20 in MVP voting. But he will hit that 500 homer mark and he's never been directly accused of PEDs.

Frankly, I don't know.

 

He's got a good shot at 550+, and that'd be even harder to say "no" to.

I think that he can get 500 home runs, and usually speaking 500 home runs means an automatic hall of fame bid. With that being said the back of his baseball card does not scream hall of fame even if he averages 25 home runs for the next 4 years. It is really hard for me to say no because i love PK and 500 home runs should still be one hell of an accomplishment but in this era it feels like 500 has lost its luster.

There's a question for you, if Dunn gets to 500, is he in the HOF? He's one of the best power hitters of the era, but that's all he was good at. Career average of .250, bad defender, gonna be a DH the next few seasons. He has never been in the playoffs, has never even finished top 20 in MVP voting. But he will hit that 500 homer mark and he's never been directly accused of PEDs.

This is a great question. I say immediately, no. 500 HRs is nice, but what about a career .250 average and being a poor fielder? Let's say for argument's sake that Konerko ends his career with 505 HRs and a career BA of .283, and Dunn ends his career with 550 HRs and a career BA of .245. Let's go a step further and say both end up with one World Series ring. Who has a better chance at the HoF?

This is a great question. I say immediately, no. 500 HRs is nice, but what about a career .250 average and being a poor fielder? Let's say for argument's sake that Konerko ends his career with 505 HRs and a career BA of .283, and Dunn ends his career with 550 HRs and a career BA of .245. Let's go a step further and say both end up with one World Series ring. Who has a better chance at the HoF?

This isn't an answer but a note...Adam Dunn has 27.3 WAR in his career, Paul Konerko has 30.3 (in the fangraphs world).

Frankly, I don't know.

 

He's got a good shot at 550+, and that'd be even harder to say "no" to.

i think the answer here is incomplete. if Dunn was to retire today with 550 hrs i dont think he would get in. but in coming seasons he might get better MVP voting because of reduction in steroid use(further himself from steroid era). I think this argument also works for Konerko just not as strong.

Edited May 9, 201114 yr by cws0591

See what happens when the Sox win a couple games? A nice thread with very good discussions. And, there's even math being talked about, without posts like "If the Sox lose x number more games before date y, how soon does Ozzie get fired, provided that (ab) - q is greater than or equal to c/w?"

Have you looked at M-56's numbers for this season before saying that?

 

A 101 ERA+ and a 1.37 WHIP isn't going to get you to 300 wins. Especially on a team that can't score runs. What's Danks, like 0-5 now? Incredible...

 

This is a great question. I say immediately, no. 500 HRs is nice, but what about a career .250 average and being a poor fielder? Let's say for argument's sake that Konerko ends his career with 505 HRs and a career BA of .283, and Dunn ends his career with 550 HRs and a career BA of .245. Let's go a step further and say both end up with one World Series ring. Who has a better chance at the HoF?

 

Looking at it again, if you compare OPS, Dunn's career OPS is over 40 points higher than Konerkos, which kinda evens out the average part. If Dunn wins a WS ring, then odds are, he will be a main reason why and that will garner him some MVP votes that season, which will help his profile.

 

The biggest thing missing for Dunn is that he's never even been in the top 20 for MVP voting in a season. The main reason for that is he's never been on a team with a winning record.

Also playing the field will help Paulie. My vote that yes he would get in is depended, in a fairly large way, in the voters rewarding the clean guys.

Also playing the field will help Paulie. My vote that yes he would get in is depended, in a fairly large way, in the voters rewarding the clean guys.

 

The voters, who don't think anybody is deserving, will not reward the clean guys and penalize

the steroid guys. That way nobody gets in. And with pitchers not threatening the 300 win mark in the future, no pitchers will get in, either.

The voters, who don't think anybody is deserving, will not reward the clean guys and penalize

the steroid guys. That way nobody gets in. And with pitchers not threatening the 300 win mark in the future, no pitchers will get in, either.

Roy Halladay will get in on the first ballot. Mariano Rivera will get in on the first ballot. Pedro Martinez will be a first ballot guy.

Btw, Bleacherreport put up an article a couple months ago about M-56 and whether or not he had any HOF chances. At least in their world, his numbers are a few more years of consistency away.

Btw, Bleacherreport put up an article a couple months ago about M-56 and whether or not he had any HOF chances. At least in their world, his numbers are a few more years of consistency away.

buerhle is another that just puts me off. i look at the numbers and see he was never one of the best but was consistently good. This brings up another question in my mind. Are HoF voters wise enough to view a career 3.85 era that has some brilliant years and some mediocre years the same as a 3.85 era that is year in and year out around a 3.85? My guess is no. for the record I do not believe mark is a hall of famer.

I think he needs to get to 550 and he'd be in. 500 is borderline for me.

 

But, I think Paulie gets to 550 because I love me some damn Paul Konerko.

I think he needs to get to 550 and he'd be in. 500 is borderline for me.

 

But, I think Paulie gets to 550 because I love me some damn Paul Konerko.

If you think Paulie is gonna reach 550, you also love some other stuff (it's white and powdery). J/K

For Konerko to get to 550 homers, assuming he plays another 6 years, he will have to average 31 home runs per season. That is a virtual impossibility.

If you think Paulie is gonna reach 550, you also love some other stuff (it's white and powdery). J/K

Sounds like you're talking about PK's "Gold Bond Medicated Powder!"

Edited May 10, 201114 yr by Middle Buffalo

I don't know anything about Konerko off of the field, but there is no way of knowing that, thanks to Bud Selig and company.

 

PK had 2 really bad seasons, so I do have my doubts he is 100% clean.

Edited May 10, 201114 yr by kitekrazy

PK had 2 really bad seasons, so I do have my doubts he is 100% clean.

I dont really believe he was(using). I would just throw out that 18 hr year because he was down across the board and i think during that 19 hr season his thumb was bothering him all season(that can really mess with the swing). His body has not been breaking down unless you consider a bad thumb steroid related? He has not really had a massive body change and he has been even more successful post steroid era.

With that being said what if during those 2 seasons Konerko actually hit his average hr total of 32. How much closer would he be?

Edited May 10, 201114 yr by cws0591

PK had 2 really bad seasons, so I do have my doubts he is 100% clean.

Both of those seasons he was dealing with nagging injuries though. He's always hit while healthy

PK had 2 really bad seasons, so I do have my doubts he is 100% clean.

 

Frank Thomas did too and he's the best bet of any player during the era to be clean.

500 homeruns gets you in.

 

i guarantee if Konerko hits 500 bombs he'll get in on probably his 2nd or 3rd ballot, i would bet my house on it

If Konerko gets close to the 500 homerun mark do any of you guys think he will make the hall? I figure if he plays 3 more years after this and averages 32 homeruns during that span he will get 500. I f he plays 4 more years after this he will only need to average about 25(which i think is doable). with all of that said even if he gets to 500 what other stat really jumps out.

 

Nope

If Paulie gets 500 HRs, the moon got an expansion team and drafted him 1st.