BaseballNick Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) If Vernon Wells is moveable for actual return, then anything is possible. Wells was traded in the offseason following a very productive year (his third best in terms of OPS). Rios is nowhere near that, so trading him is going to be much more difficult, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) Wells was traded in the offseason following a very productive year (his third best in terms of OPS). Rios is nowhere near that, so trading him is going to be much more difficult, in my opinion. Wells also makes nearly 2x what Rios Makes. Yes, it'll take a miracle. But it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The Sox are looking for RH relievers, they made a run at Kerry Wood last winter. He's signed very cheaply, wants to stay in Chicago and may approve the move across town for a couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I would think KW's wishlist would be for Dunn and Rios to start earning their paychecks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 16, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) I would think KW's wishlist would be for Dunn and Rios to start earning their paychecks.... If the Sox start playing better and emerge as true contenders, maybe Rios will start trying and producing. I'm convinced Dunn is trying at least. He might get hot on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) It seems that most of us agree that the highest priority should be to move the Rios and Dunn contracts. Neither of these guys appears to be good enough to justify their salaries, even if they should start to play a little better. Their contracts could cripple the organization for the next three years, and tie managements hands from making any further needed acquisitions. The only way you can trade such under achieving players is to include them in a deal with a player that some team really wants and needs. Looking to next year, perhaps they could now trade two different packages to a couple of contending teams. A National League team might have confidence that Dunn could produce up to his N.L. career numbers, playing 1B. If someone wants pitching and could use Dunn, trade Jackson and Dunn for a young pitching prospect. Then package Danks and Rios, and send them to a team needing a good LH starter. If they want Danks, who should be considered highly desirable, they have to agree to take Rios. This is addition by subtraction. Unloading the Rios and Dunn contracts would give the Sox a lot of payroll flexibility going into next year. We could afford to retain Quentin, and plug in de Aza in CF and Viciedo for the other corner outfield spot. With the money the Sox would save, they should be able to sign a good LH power bat to DH. That was the idea with Dunn, but I think that you have to realistically conclude that he is not the answer. Perhaps they could get even more back in those trades, however just unloading the Rios and Dunn salaries, without having to kick in any salary relief, would justify the moves, IMO. Is any of this realisitically feasible, and if so, which teams are the best candidates for such trades? And lastly, who would you target in the off season as a free agent LH power bat? Could Prince Fielder be affordable with all of the salary relief provided by these moves? Edited July 17, 2011 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 05:36 AM) It seems that most of us agree that the highest priority should be to move the Rios and Dunn contracts. Neither of these guys appears to be good enough to justify their salaries, even if they should start to play a little better. Their contracts could cripple the organization for the next three years, and tie managements hands from making any further needed acquisitions. The only way you can trade such under achieving players is to include them in a deal with a player that some team really wants and needs. Looking to next year, perhaps they could now trade two different packages to a couple of contending teams. A National League team might have confidence that Dunn could produce up to his N.L. career numbers, playing 1B. If someone wants pitching and could use Dunn, trade Jackson and Dunn for a young pitching prospect. Then package Danks and Rios, and send them to a team needing a good LH starter. If they want Danks, who should be considered highly desirable, they have to agree to take Rios. This is addition by subtraction. Unloading the Rios and Dunn contracts would give the Sox a lot of payroll flexibility going into next year. We could afford to retain Quentin, and plug in de Aza in CF and Viciedo for the other corner outfield spot. With the money the Sox would save, they should be able to sign a good LH power bat to DH. That was the idea with Dunn, but I think that you have to realistically conclude that he is not the answer. Perhaps they could get even more back in those trades, however just unloading the Rios and Dunn salaries, without having to kick in any salary relief, would justify the moves, IMO. Is any of this realisitically feasible, and if so, which teams are the best candidates for such trades? And lastly, who would you target in the off season as a free agent LH power bat? Could Prince Fielder be affordable with all of the salary relief provided by these moves? That could be the highest priority, but it would be a waste of time. No one is going to take the Dunn or Rios contracts off your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 07:05 AM) That could be the highest priority, but it would be a waste of time. No one is going to take the Dunn or Rios contracts off your hands. I understand, and I agree that no one will simply take the contracts. That was my point. Wouldn't some team be willing to take those contracts if they could acquire Danks or Jackson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 08:11 AM) I understand, and I agree that no one will simply take the contracts. That was my point. Wouldn't some team be willing to take those contracts if they could acquire Danks or Jackson? I doubt it. The teams that usually take on money, Boston, is right up against the luxury tax and supposedly can't add payroll. The Yankees are over, so Rios contract would really cost them 150% of what they would be paying him. Thats about $19 million a year, plus if you want to keep Danks, he'll cost you the same or more. Due to sheer dollars, I don't think you could find a team who would take Rios or Dunn, if you just gave them John Danks to do so, much less give you anything for him, and certainly not for a 2 month rental of Edwin Jackson. The Sox are stuck with them. Hopefully, they will either come around, or Ozzie will move them down in the line up, or Ozzie will move them out of the line up, and if their performance ever improves to the point someone will take their contracts, KW needs to dump them immediately. Edited July 17, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2011 -> 07:22 AM) I doubt it. The teams that usually take on money, Boston, is right up against the luxury tax and supposedly can't add payroll. The Yankees are over, so Rios contract would really cost them 150% of what they would be paying him. Thats about $19 million a year, plus if you want to keep Danks, he'll cost you the same or more. Due to sheer dollars, I don't think you could find a team who would take Rios or Dunn, if you just gave them John Danks to do so, much less give you anything for him, and certainly not for a 2 month rental of Edwin Jackson. The Sox are stuck with them. Hopefully, they will either come around, or Ozzie will move them down in the line up, or Ozzie will move them out of the line up, and if their performance ever improves to the point someone will take their contracts, KW needs to dump them immediately. Well, I guess it's hopeless, unless they wake up and start earning those contracts. Thanks for your thoughts, though futility never feels very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) And once Dunn starts hitting again, KW will never deal him because that would be admitting he was dead wrong. Rios, as quite a few mentioned, should/could have been dealt in the offseason...it would have been a huge win to clear the risky contract from our books AND get anything in return, since we gave up absolutely ZERO to the Blue Jays in order to acquire him. That's an "I told you so" move if ever there was one for a GM. It's pretty clear that Rios HAS only produced in 2-3 of the 8 months we've had him on our roster coming into this season. Edited July 17, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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