fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 As Kalapse perfectly said above, Kenny Williams is just terrible at his job now. If you go into a season with philosophy of "All In", and then you have to start trading some of your starting players when you're 4.5 games out for lesser players to cover up for your previous failures, then you need to go become the GM of the Windy City Thunderbolts. This clown has f***ed with this organization for far too long lately. People don't bash his transactions enough because they're just as infatuated with the "big name" players the Sox have brought in as Kenny was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Kalapse, Dont worry yourself, it doesnt make sense its not true. (I usually dont talk in such absolutes because you never know, but this is just way out there from a Toronto perspective.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) So let me get this straight. If this is true... KW effectively traded Josh Fields, Chris Getz, and Daniel Hudson for relief pitcher Jason Frasor, cash, and a prospect. Color me skeptical. We have a close equivalent to all this with Swisher trade and re-trade that happened. The part that makes it all possible is how badly JR might want money freed up for now and '12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:16 AM) So let me get this straight. If this is true... KW effectively traded Josh Fields, Chris Getz, and Daniel Hudson for relief pitcher Jason Frasor, cash, and a prospect. Color me skeptical. Don't forget one of the best young lefties in the minors as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:15 PM) Come on...$10 million isn't going to force us to make this mistake. You would hope not but at this point I'm going on the assumption that this rumor is true (there's really no discussion if we dismiss the rumor out of hand) and thinking logically, yeah this is a mistake brought on by salary dumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) It's not just Teahen. It's Dunn, Rios, and Peavy too. If we rebuild next year then those guys are going to be taking up a whole lot of what JR is going to greenlight. And even now, those guys aren't going anywhere, so the money has to come from somewhere if we need to add another high salary guy. I mean, who else can we trade that makes money and doesn't turn us into a pure seller? Also, I'm not sure we would get a player for Edwin that the board here would think is worth it. We'd probably get a couple guys who are far away and can't help right now. Getting Frasor to help now, plus the possible comp, plus dumping Teahen, plus a prospect? In my eyes this is a great move, especially if there is another one coming. I hate losing the SP depth and that could really, really hurt us, although we definitely need the other arm in the pen. And no matter what, our offense is going to have to get us into the playoffs since the pitching is already doing its job, and this move does not detract from the offense. I like it if true. If that's what is happening here then you trade everything of value you have now and let Teahen and his $10 million play next year while you let these prospects you just traded for develop. You don't kill the value of your assets by attaching some s***ty $5 million a year player to the deal. It's not like you're trying to ditch a really big contract here. And if you are really DYING to get rid of Teahen, you ride this thing out til Sunday afternoon to see what value you can build as the deadline approaches. You sure as s*** don't do it on Tuesday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) As Kalapse perfectly said above, Kenny Williams is just terrible at his job now. If you go into a season with philosophy of "All In", and then you have to start trading some of your starting players when you're 4.5 games out for lesser players to cover up for your previous failures, then you need to go become the GM of the Windy City Thunderbolts. This clown has f***ed with this organization for far too long lately. People don't bash his transactions enough because they're just as infatuated with the "big name" players the Sox have brought in as Kenny was. Not this guy. I have said all along that KW was the bigger culprit to the demise of this organization than the loud mouth ass we having running the team from the dugout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) Assuming this is true . . . So it's a good trade for KW because it dumps Teahen's salary yet the Teahen extension was a tremendous f***up on KW's behalf that next to no one thought was a good idea at the time? I love how KW makes bad trades to cover up for bad trades, that's been his MO over the past few years. So 6 years of Dan Hudson for a season's worth of good production from Jackson (which won us nothing), 2 months of Frasor, a probable mediocre prospect and maybe Type B compensation. Must we give away good starting pitching in every f***ing trade? Go over budget spending a s*** ton of money on players who don't produce so then you're apparently forced to dump good starting pitching for a reliever, a prospect that I assume will be mediocre and a supp. pick in a god damn seller's market because your team sucks and thus attendance is s*** and you need to start slashing payroll. I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. That's it in a nutshell. But it was KW's screw up that got this snowball rolling. That's why I hope if JR decides to go young he lets someone else make the decisions. Why reward KW with 4 or 5 years of employment trying to fix the mess he created? Hopefully JR learned something when he gave Jerry Krause a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 This trade is BS... just don't see why Toronto would trade for Jackson and Teahen. Jackson is FA and no way Toronto is going to sign him to the money he will demand thru Boras. Teahen doesn't make much sense for them either since they project Brett Lawrie to be the 3B of the future starting as soon as September. Blue Jays are a team that are going to spend their money cautiously to compete with the AL east money spending powerhouses not waste it on Jackson and Teahen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bucket, I'm on to you! You created this thread as a favor to the Guillen family in order to move the discussion away from Ozzie's brilliant managing tonight. Clever!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:59 AM) Maybe its a 3 way trade. Well Jackson and Marky Mark for Rasmus would be incredible value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:20 PM) Not this guy. I have said all along that KW was the bigger culprit to the demise of this organization than the loud mouth ass we having running the team from the dugout. I have no problem with your post personally, but it reminds me of something: I hate when people compare Ozzie and KW in terms of who deserves more blame. They're both AWFUL at their job right now and deserve to be fired. End of story. I don't care who deserves it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) That was my first thought when I saw the thread. According to the Rasmus story in the Post Dispatch last week, the Sox and Cards may need a 3rd team to get a deal done because the Sox did not have the prospect(s) the Cards were looking for. CWS get Rasmus STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect TOR gets Teahen I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well, I am obviously the big KW supporter here....so I'll take the criticism, but I sure as hell can't fault the guy for assembling the best rotation in the division, the best bullpen in the division, and what should be an offense as good as any other in the division, only to watch the players fail. This s*** with Adam Dunn is absolutely inexplicable. If he was hitting anywhere close to his career average we are in first place right now. If this deal is true, and it isn't, then I am clearly wrong about the guy because this is a panic move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) We gain nothing from stewing on how KW's teahan extension was a failure. I'm fine with evaluating a GMs moves from this moment forward, because frankly that's what affects us. Anything else only matters if there's a realistic possibility of him being fired, at which point his past history of moves would be relevant Edited July 27, 2011 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) CWS get Rasmus STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect TOR gets Teahen I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense. That would go over extremely well in Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:20 PM) That's it in a nutshell. But it was KW's screw up that got this snowball rolling. That's why I hope if JR decides to go young he lets someone else make the decisions. Why reward KW with 4 or 5 years of employment trying to fix the mess he created? Hopefully JR learned something when he gave Jerry Krause a free pass. Yeah, if this goes down it just accentuates the terrible job KW's done running this club the past few years and should make it crystal clear that it's time for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:23 AM) CWS get Rasmus STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect TOR gets Teahen I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense. This trade makes so little sense that it scares me it's legit. Also, not sure how true it is, but a Cards buddy of mine heard STL wanted Sale and Beckham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) That was my first thought when I saw the thread. According to the Rasmus story in the Post Dispatch last week, the Sox and Cards may need a 3rd team to get a deal done because the Sox did not have the prospect(s) the Cards were looking for. Maybe the source got confused and Jackson is really going to the Cards, with something else coming to the Blue Jays? As described in this thread, this trade is pretty silly. But this is KW style trade, and Frasor is definitely a KW guy. With De Aza being pulled from Charlotte's game tonight, you'd think a move is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:23 PM) I have no problem with your post personally, but it reminds me of something: I hate when people compare Ozzie and KW in terms of who deserves more blame. They're both AWFUL at their job right now and deserve to be fired. End of story. I don't care who deserves it more. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Both should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 This deal simply makes no sense for either team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:24 PM) Well, I am obviously the big KW supporter here....so I'll take the criticism, but I sure as hell can't fault the guy for assembling the best rotation in the division, the best bullpen in the division, and what should be an offense as good as any other in the division, only to watch the players fail. This s*** with Adam Dunn is absolutely inexplicable. If he was hitting anywhere close to his career average we are in first place right now. If this deal is true, and it isn't, then I am clearly wrong about the guy because this is a panic move. I'm with you on this one, actually. I'm a pretty big KW fan but have cooled recently. Still, you can't blame him for so many guys underperforming. No one expected Dunn to hit .160. You take a chance on Rios, sure. People quickly forget he was pretty awesome in the 1st half last year. He spends, people say he isn't spending wisely. He doesn't spend, people cry poor and blame him and JR. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:24 PM) Well, I am obviously the big KW supporter here....so I'll take the criticism, but I sure as hell can't fault the guy for assembling the best rotation in the division, the best bullpen in the division, and what should be an offense as good as any other in the division, only to watch the players fail. This s*** with Adam Dunn is absolutely inexplicable. If he was hitting anywhere close to his career average we are in first place right now. If this deal is true, and it isn't, then I am clearly wrong about the guy because this is a panic move. I can't defend a GM who, given a 127 million dollar payroll, put together a team that has been under .500 almost all season and struggling to tread water in a bad division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:25 PM) This trade makes so little sense that it scares me it's legit. Also, not sure how true it is, but a Cards buddy of mine heard STL wanted Sale and Beckham Exactly. There's really nothing I can think of with these 3 teams that sounds feasible with the names we've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:26 PM) I'm with you on this one, actually. I'm a pretty big KW fan but have cooled recently. Still, you can't blame him for so many guys underperforming. No one expected Dunn to hit .160. You take a chance on Rios, sure. People quickly forget he was pretty awesome in the 1st half last year. He spends, people say he isn't spending wisely. He doesn't spend, people cry poor and blame him and JR. Whatever. Someone called The Score a few weeks back and actually said something very profound. When KW is limited in resources, he actually is better. When he has to go out and find the bargains and be real crafty to make the team better, he finds real good ways to that. But when given a blank check, he isn't as scrupulous in his ways and tends to make big mistakes, which we are seeing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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