Ozzie wasn't fired. He quit to get more money so he wouldn't die poor.

 

Kenny offered to stand down.

 

Cora was never going to be interim.

 

Cowley isn't a journalist.

 

Greg Walker was responsible for the hitters to a degree.

 

 

 

 

 

Feel free to add to it.

Ozzie quit. Oh, it was already mentioned, the rest is irrelevant.

 

Ozzie supporters, the 2-3 of you that are left, defend that s*** please. haha

 

I expect deflection of the question though

Ozzie quit. Oh, it was already mentioned, the rest is irrelevant.

 

Ozzie supporters, the 2-3 of you that are left, defend that s*** please. haha

 

I expect deflection of the question though

 

I expect Milk to link the thread of dodged questions.

 

I expect Milk to link the thread of dodged questions.

 

Hm?

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...3338&st=465

Hm?

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...3338&st=465

 

Milkman delivers.

I do believe that walker was hardly a factor and did help some of the white sox hitters.

Milkman delivers.

 

That was quite the owning you performed. Haha. DODGED!

Ozzie quit. Oh, it was already mentioned, the rest is irrelevant.

 

Ozzie supporters, the 2-3 of you that are left, defend that s*** please. haha

 

I expect deflection of the question though

 

A good essay question for persuasive argument even if you don't take that side.

 

A good essay question for persuasive argument even if you don't take that side.

I would love to see a well-written and well-thought out essay on this matter by one of the Ozzie supporters on this board.

 

But that will never happen...

Edited September 29, 201114 yr by chw42

I would love to see a well-written and well-thought out essay on this matter by one of the Ozzie supporters on this thread.

 

But that will never happen...

 

They should fire KW instead, it was his fault!

A good essay question for persuasive argument even if you don't take that side.

 

As I just posted in another thread, I don't buy the whole Ozzie quit because he wanted more money claim.. I think that it was already discussed that they wouldn't be extending him past what they already had done, and even furthermore I think it went a little more into the you're probably going to be fired territory.. If the reports are true, which I tend to believe based on how quickly the compensation came up, they had already been in talks with the Marlins about this before Mondays events even happened.. I honestly believe that instead of being fired Ozzie preferred to make it look like he got out of here on his terms.. Instead of just being fired, or let go, he chose to ask to be released and then went on his little rant that he doesn't care about anything but money..

 

I don't remember ever getting that kind of vibe from Ozzie before, and like its already obvious to see he wasn't going to be returning anyway if you piece together everything we know about the situation.. This way, instead of being fired it makes it look like he was the one who wanted out and not the White Sox who were ready to move on from the Ozzie era.. Also, the fact that it just kind of happened out of nowhere with two games left in the season, I tend to believe that he was informed he wasn't going to be back next year and instead tried to spin it that he no longer wanted to be here anymore.. I think that he DID want to return here, but obviously the feelings weren't mutual.. Ozzie is definitely the kind of person who would take it personally especially with his relationship with KW and knowing that he was being brought back and Ozzie was the one getting let go..

Ozzie wasn't fired. He quit to get more money so he wouldn't die poor.

 

Kenny offered to stand down.

 

Cora was never going to be interim.

 

Cowley isn't a journalist.

 

Greg Walker was responsible for the hitters to a degree.

 

 

 

 

 

Feel free to add to it.

 

 

Why should it matter if KW offered to "stand down"? Should that make me admire him more? I would have more respect if he said to JR, "Look, I'm responsible for this mess, the completely dysfunctional relationship between the front office and the coaching staff, Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Hudson for Jackson/Swisher...just give me one more chance. I'm going to rededicate myself 100% to this job and the effort of getting this organization back to where it was in 2005 and 2006. I won't rest until we have a team that White Sox fans can be proud of, that plays the game correctly, that hustles, that executes fundamentals..." That he is willing to quit and escape from this mess he created doesn't really impress me at all.

 

In actuality, he created a large amount of the structural issues that plague this organization both today, tomorrow and 3 years from now.

 

He was the one most directly responsible for Dave Wilder, and the current complete disaster which is our talent-base in the Domincan. Even this week, he's expressing astonishment when there's no "superstar" players to be had down there for the amount the White Sox want to spend.

 

He should be honest with JR and tell him he needs to open the purse strings more in Asia, Venezuela and the Dominican, as well as emerging markets like Brazil, Australia, India, etc. Same thing with the draft.

 

He should tell JR that it's his fault he needs to let Buehrle and Konerko go, because of the other players who are woefully underperforming with huge contracts.

 

If he's not capable of convincing JR that the ONLY way to change the organizational mindset is to trade away most of the core and start over with a philosophy like they're following in Tampa, Milwaukee, Toronto, Arizona, KC, Texas, etc., he should walk away from the job today.

 

If, and only if, he really wants to "WIN THE WAR" with Ozzie Guillen, about who was more important to the 2005 World Series championship...he should prove that he can build a consistent playoff-contending team again from the ashes. KW did this in the 2007-08 offseason to an extent, but things are 3X as bleak now because of the contracts we can't get off the books until midseason 2012 at the earliest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why should it matter if KW offered to "stand down"? Should that make me admire him more? I would have more respect if he said to JR, "Look, I'm responsible for this mess, the completely dysfunctional relationship between the front office and the coaching staff, Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Hudson for Jackson/Swisher...just give me one more chance. I'm going to rededicate myself 100% to this job and the effort of getting this organization back to where it was in 2005 and 2006. I won't rest until we have a team that White Sox fans can be proud of, that plays the game correctly, that hustles, that executes fundamentals..." That he is willing to quit and escape from this mess he created doesn't really impress me at all.

 

In actuality, he created a large amount of the structural issues that plague this organization both today, tomorrow and 3 years from now.

 

He was the one most directly responsible for Dave Wilder, and the current complete disaster which is our talent-base in the Domincan. Even this week, he's expressing astonishment when there's no "superstar" players to be had down there for the amount the White Sox want to spend.

 

He should be honest with JR and tell him he needs to open the purse strings more in Asia, Venezuela and the Dominican, as well as emerging markets like Brazil, Australia, India, etc. Same thing with the draft.

 

He should tell JR that it's his fault he needs to let Buehrle and Konerko go, because of the other players who are woefully underperforming with huge contracts.

 

If he's not capable of convincing JR that the ONLY way to change the organizational mindset is to trade away most of the core and start over with a philosophy like they're following in Tampa, Milwaukee, Toronto, Arizona, KC, Texas, etc., he should walk away from the job today.

 

If, and only if, he really wants to "WIN THE WAR" with Ozzie Guillen, about who was more important to the 2005 World Series championship...he should prove that he can build a consistent playoff-contending team again from the ashes. KW did this in the 2007-08 offseason to an extent, but things are 3X as bleak now because of the contracts we can't get off the books until midseason 2012 at the earliest.

 

 

I mentioned KW because people act like Kenny sucked up to retain his job.

I would love to see a well-written and well-thought out essay on this matter by one of the Ozzie supporters on this board.

 

But that will never happen...

 

I don't think you guys want to read another essay on why I love Ozzie.

Milkman approved of my long post in the other thread.

I love Ozzie Guillen. You really want more of my reasons why??

Would be nice to see someone try and defend Ozzie without mentioning KW. Just because you think one sucked doesn't make it OK that the other really did.

Why should it matter if KW offered to "stand down"? Should that make me admire him more? I would have more respect if he said to JR, "Look, I'm responsible for this mess, the completely dysfunctional relationship between the front office and the coaching staff, Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Hudson for Jackson/Swisher...just give me one more chance. I'm going to rededicate myself 100% to this job and the effort of getting this organization back to where it was in 2005 and 2006. I won't rest until we have a team that White Sox fans can be proud of, that plays the game correctly, that hustles, that executes fundamentals..." That he is willing to quit and escape from this mess he created doesn't really impress me at all.

 

In actuality, he created a large amount of the structural issues that plague this organization both today, tomorrow and 3 years from now.

 

He was the one most directly responsible for Dave Wilder, and the current complete disaster which is our talent-base in the Domincan. Even this week, he's expressing astonishment when there's no "superstar" players to be had down there for the amount the White Sox want to spend.

 

He should be honest with JR and tell him he needs to open the purse strings more in Asia, Venezuela and the Dominican, as well as emerging markets like Brazil, Australia, India, etc. Same thing with the draft.

 

He should tell JR that it's his fault he needs to let Buehrle and Konerko go, because of the other players who are woefully underperforming with huge contracts.

 

If he's not capable of convincing JR that the ONLY way to change the organizational mindset is to trade away most of the core and start over with a philosophy like they're following in Tampa, Milwaukee, Toronto, Arizona, KC, Texas, etc., he should walk away from the job today.

 

If, and only if, he really wants to "WIN THE WAR" with Ozzie Guillen, about who was more important to the 2005 World Series championship...he should prove that he can build a consistent playoff-contending team again from the ashes. KW did this in the 2007-08 offseason to an extent, but things are 3X as bleak now because of the contracts we can't get off the books until midseason 2012 at the earliest.

 

That is a very compelling and eloquent perspective. It comes back to the accountability issue, doesn't it? Thank you.

As I just posted in another thread, I don't buy the whole Ozzie quit because he wanted more money claim.. I think that it was already discussed that they wouldn't be extending him past what they already had done, and even furthermore I think it went a little more into the you're probably going to be fired territory.. If the reports are true, which I tend to believe based on how quickly the compensation came up, they had already been in talks with the Marlins about this before Mondays events even happened.. I honestly believe that instead of being fired Ozzie preferred to make it look like he got out of here on his terms.. Instead of just being fired, or let go, he chose to ask to be released and then went on his little rant that he doesn't care about anything but money..

 

I don't remember ever getting that kind of vibe from Ozzie before, and like its already obvious to see he wasn't going to be returning anyway if you piece together everything we know about the situation.. This way, instead of being fired it makes it look like he was the one who wanted out and not the White Sox who were ready to move on from the Ozzie era.. Also, the fact that it just kind of happened out of nowhere with two games left in the season, I tend to believe that he was informed he wasn't going to be back next year and instead tried to spin it that he no longer wanted to be here anymore.. I think that he DID want to return here, but obviously the feelings weren't mutual.. Ozzie is definitely the kind of person who would take it personally especially with his relationship with KW and knowing that he was being brought back and Ozzie was the one getting let go..

So in your eyes every member of the Sox including the players came out with quotes to aid Ozzie in his big cover-up?

 

S on one hand he left for more money which was supported by his comments,kws, jrs, and the players.

 

On the other, everyone lied to cover up the true situation. Ozzie really didn't mean it when he said he lost the desire to coach the Sox, it's was all part of his plan.

So in your eyes every member of the Sox including the players came out with quotes to aid Ozzie in his big cover-up?

 

S on one hand he left for more money which was supported by his comments,kws, jrs, and the players.

 

On the other, everyone lied to cover up the true situation. Ozzie really didn't mean it when he said he lost the desire to coach the Sox, it's was all part of his plan.

 

Seriously, that is a laughable scenario versus just taking everyone at their word.

Seriously, that is a laughable scenario versus just taking everyone at their word.

 

Anything to put Ozzie in a more positive light...

Anything to put Ozzie in a more positive light...

 

All the proof you need that this is a good thing is to look at who I have been agreeing with lately. That should say it all.

White Sox winning percentage under Ozzie Guillen: .525

White Sox winning percentage under Kenny Williams: .530

 

Off topic but if you round the winning percentage, it's the same. Just thought I'd give the Ozzie lovers some more ammunition.

Off topic but if you round the winning percentage, it's the same. Just thought I'd give the Ozzie lovers some more ammunition.

 

They use three digits when calculating that.

Milkman you are making a mistake by using win percentage to defend Williams over Guillen. A very big one.

They use three digits when calculating that.

 

Son of a b****... you could've atleast used a emoticon so it didn't look like you just b**** slapped me.

 

Jackass.

Milkman you are making a mistake by using win percentage to defend Williams over Guillen. A very big one.

 

The f***? Is Ozzie going to come kill him or something?

 

Ahahahaha.

 

Also, yeah, Swisher was not acquired as a CF. Opening Day CF was Alexei.