February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 08:12 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riosal01.shtml Show me the "warning signs" on Rios offensively. Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards 2005 24 TOR AL 146 519 481 71 126 23 6 10 59 14 9 28 101 .262 .306 .397 .703 84 191 14 5 0 5 1 * 2006 25 TOR AL 128 498 450 68 136 33 6 17 82 15 6 35 89 .302 .349 .516 .865 121 232 10 3 0 10 1 * AS 2007 26 TOR AL 161 711 643 114 191 43 7 24 85 17 4 55 103 .297 .354 .498 .852 122 320 9 6 0 7 3 * AS 2008 27 TOR AL 155 686 635 91 185 47 8 15 79 32 8 44 112 .291 .337 .461 .798 112 293 20 2 0 5 2 * 2009 28 TOR AL 108 479 436 52 115 25 2 14 62 19 3 31 78 .264 .317 .427 .744 94 186 14 6 0 6 1 9/8 It's not necessarily statistics, as much as rumors about his moodiness/surliness...his confrontation with a fan in TOR, the chemistry questions. Clearly, he was tailing off in 2008 and 2009 compared to the previous two years, but the same arguments can be made against Dunn because of the 2nd half of 2010.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 08:15 PM) It's not necessarily statistics, as much as rumors about his moodiness/surliness...his confrontation with a fan in TOR, the chemistry questions. Clearly, he was tailing off in 2008 and 2009 compared to the previous two years, but the same arguments can be made against Dunn because of the 2nd half of 2010. He has not had any major attitude problems in Chicago and his 2010 stats with the Sox were very good. His "tailing off" looked more like an abherration than an actual trend. If anything, last year was his first major slump outside of his final months of 2009 with the Sox.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) Then LaRussa is stuck with a bunch of players that KW picked up that he wouldn't have wanted. That's nuts. Stuck with? If LaRussa values his year off over getting youngsters that happen to not be named Molina/Castro etc, then that's all that matters. I don't see why you think the opportunity cost of keeping KW an extra year is so high. It's one thing for you to find it unlikely (of course that's normal) but I don't see why you pretend it'd be something disastrous. It may be Tony wants to be home for a bit. It could even be JR is flat out indecisive. His history is to wait out GMing changes past the point when the public expected them (Krause). But in the end we have no idea what goes through his mind on the topic. My guess would be KW gets more chances at this thing, but I have no way of knowing that's in stone simply from the circumstantial. Edited February 13, 201214 yr by Princess Dye
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:00 PM) If you were firing him because of those 3 players, you fire him when those 3 players let you down in an "All in" season. The job from now is to get out of the hole that last year left us in, and that is a multi year commitment. Replacing the GM next year is like replacing a college coach after his first recruiting class. You have no idea how it will look in 3 years. We could win 60 games next year, then find out in 2 years that Sale, Molina, Danks, Castro, and Humber are the newest version of the early 2000's A's rotation, just destroying the league. The hole the franchise is in was created by the GM that is in place today. If last year was a fluke (for those three) my belief is that the Sox will contend. If last year was their true talent level, you're putting the guy who made the call to acquire them in charge of the rebuilding. It would be a reckless thing to do and should not happen. Schueler contributed Buehrle, Konerko, Garland to the 2005 team. Nobody was sad to see him go when he left, it was time.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) The hole the franchise is in was created by the GM that is in place today. If last year was a fluke (for those three) my belief is that the Sox will contend. If last year was their true talent level, you're putting the guy who made the call to acquire them in charge of the rebuilding. It would be a reckless thing to do and should not happen. Schueler contributed Buehrle, Konerko, Garland to the 2005 team. Nobody was sad to see him go when he left, it was time. So, in your opinion KW should be allowed to serve as long as he wants and then step up to Senior Vice President whenever he wants?
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) I think we now need a thread for Marty/Balta arguments to go along with one for SS2k5/Balta arguments. Is it just me or are they having the exact same argument in multiple threads?
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) Is it just me or are they having the exact same argument in multiple threads? Any thread that Marty shows up in turns into a "KW should be fired" thread.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Is it just me or are they having the exact same argument in multiple threads? Pretty much.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Is it just me or are they having the exact same argument in multiple threads? Possibly, I've stopped reading a few threads because of it.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:33 PM) Possibly, I've stopped reading a few threads because of it. You're not missing much.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:12 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riosal01.shtml Show me the "warning signs" on Rios offensively. Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards 2005 24 TOR AL 146 519 481 71 126 23 6 10 59 14 9 28 101 .262 .306 .397 .703 84 191 14 5 0 5 1 * 2006 25 TOR AL 128 498 450 68 136 33 6 17 82 15 6 35 89 .302 .349 .516 .865 121 232 10 3 0 10 1 * AS 2007 26 TOR AL 161 711 643 114 191 43 7 24 85 17 4 55 103 .297 .354 .498 .852 122 320 9 6 0 7 3 * AS 2008 27 TOR AL 155 686 635 91 185 47 8 15 79 32 8 44 112 .291 .337 .461 .798 112 293 20 2 0 5 2 * 2009 28 TOR AL 108 479 436 52 115 25 2 14 62 19 3 31 78 .264 .317 .427 .744 94 186 14 6 0 6 1 9/8 His OPS dropped by 50 points for two straight seasons (07-08, 08-09), that's pretty severe. He had been known to have questionable character too.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 07:59 PM) At least they are brief and pithy retorts back and forth. There's quite a few posts that are multiple paragraphs. I always read them and then realize I'm not absorbing any of it.
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 09:33 PM) There's quite a few posts that are multiple paragraphs. I always read them and then realize I'm not absorbing any of it. In other words, it's like a typical Michael Bay movie minus the bikini-clad girls and his trademark fiery car chase explosions have been replaced by rhetorical ones. Edited February 13, 201214 yr by caulfield12
February 13, 201214 yr QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 10:33 PM) There's quite a few posts that are multiple paragraphs. I always read them and then realize I'm not absorbing any of it. Ditto.
February 14, 201214 yr The White Sox made Morosi's "5 teams that won't win the World Series" list. Along with the Astros, Athletics, Mariners, and the Mets. It could have been worse, White Sox fans. Sure, the popular Mark Buehrle left to join Ozzie Guillen with the Marlins. Closer Sergio Santos and right fielder Carlos Quentin were traded for pitching prospects. Setup man Jason Frasor was shipped back to Toronto, leaving another void in the bullpen. But the all-out fire sale never materialized. The team signed John Danks to a $65 million contract extension, while (for now) holding onto Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton. There’s a Mets-like argument to be made here: If only the existing cast — Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Gordon Beckham, Jake Peavy — plays up to its potential after last year’s disappointments and injuries, the White Sox could exceed popular expectations. Still, for an organization that struggles to generate buzz in Chicago, this offseason was even more underwhelming than most. Infielder Osvaldo Martinez was the only position player the White Sox added to the 40-man roster from outside the organization — and he arrived from the Marlins as compensation for Guillen taking their managerial job. Buehrle’s presence will be missed. Thornton hasn’t proved he can close. Chris Sale, penciled into the rotation, has never started a game in the major leagues. New manager Robin Ventura is inexperienced. The everyday lineup lacks depth and flexibility. I’m about to type five words I never could have fathomed during Guillen’s eventful tenure: The White Sox look boring. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/mlb-tea...n-Astros-021212 Edited February 14, 201214 yr by DirtySox
February 14, 201214 yr The White Sox were easily the most boring and unwatchable team in baseball in 2011. It really can't get any worse than last year, because wholesale changes in personnel will occur as a result...and watching younger, hungrier players is always more fun than watching overpaid veterans.
February 14, 201214 yr I've pretty much written this season off.. For the Sox to spend 0 dollars on new major league talent is pitiful.. I will be at the ball park for about 50 games this season. I truly hope to see some good ball games.
February 14, 201214 yr http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/2/1/27624...n-the-white-sox I don't know what this says more about, KW or Ozzie. White Sox only ahead of the Royals (and defunct Expos) for having the most negative WAR players with over 100 at-bats in the last decade.
February 14, 201214 yr QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Feb 14, 2012 -> 12:33 AM) I've pretty much written this season off.. For the Sox to spend 0 dollars on new major league talent is pitiful.. I will be at the ball park for about 50 games this season. I truly hope to see some good ball games. They really can't spend any money going forward until they know what they have in 2012. Sure, they could have signed Soler for $20-30 million, that's not a move just for this season... Would it have made sense to spend another $10-15 million on the bullpen? Even if they kept their payroll at last year's levels (let's say, bringing back Buehrle/Santos/Quentin), would anyone be predicting anything above 83-85 wins? You'd have to doubt it, right?
February 14, 201214 yr Fox Sports poll question today...http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb Which team will finish with the worst record in 2012? 6 choices: Astros A's Mariners Mets White Sox Another team If I were to list 5 teams, I'd go with the Twins, Orioles, Cubs, and Padres before I get to the Sox for this question.
February 14, 201214 yr FWIW, the Sox are "winning" that poll. For all the jabba about how they are one of the worst teams in the MLB, they still have enough pitching to finish in the middle of the pack. Of course, this is Fox Sports...
February 14, 201214 yr Still have to play the games. Sure, things look dim. But an off-the-map young guy coming in and having a big year, it's not out of the question. We might not be taken seriously as contenders, but if our youth produces with this chance its been given...things could be a lot more exciting. Even more exciting than hearing managers and GMs rant and rave on a mic, if you can believe that. Edited February 14, 201214 yr by Princess Dye
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