Rowand44 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) im not sure this statement is true. Sale looks like a good pick. Besides that weve had the football player from LSU who has been hurt, and when healthy has hit .236 in the minors. Walker may be too early to tell, but nobody here can be impressed so far. We've added 0 depth in the later rounds as well frankly, a couple years ago KW had his "re-commitment" to finding prospects with big upside and "overhauled" our amateur scouting....well it hasnt worked one bit yet IMO, and has only gotten worse.... this was tweeted by baseball prospectus The White Sox system is so bad that I decided to write scouting reports on the characters from Real Genius instead: http://bit.ly/xQTokq You're only looking at 1st round picks though and it's too early to tell on Walker and well this is probably a do or die year for Mitchell. Besides that the last few drafts have already turned out some MLB players, overall the drafting has been much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sox add another college football player to the mix, sign Mitch Mustain to a minor league deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 08:36 AM) Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do those numbers represent? Eduardo Escobar is clearly not the #38 overall prospect, and Molina is definitely not the #63 player in our system. Are these ratings on a 100 point scale or something? Unless by choice (read: Randy Johnson, Barry Zito, Mark Buehrle, Ichiro, whoever else) those numbered below 50 are considered to be very strong Major League candidates with expectations of making some sort of contribution to the MLB team during the regular season. Anybody above 50 is, going into that season (and that season alone), an afterthought. Molina being #63 is just so he has a number for ST and in case he gets called up to the big leagues. His chances of making the Opening Day MLB roster are about the same as mine are. He has a better fastball, splitter, curve, change, slider spitball, slidestep, bunt, bat, and HBP stance than I do, but we could both use a little more work before contributing to the White Sox MLB team. Oh, and they'll have to pay him more too, but that's just pshhhhhhhhh Edited February 10, 2012 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 09:48 PM) You're only looking at 1st round picks though and it's too early to tell on Walker and well this is probably a do or die year for Mitchell. Besides that the last few drafts have already turned out some MLB players, overall the drafting has been much better. Yes, thank you. Also, as I noted in my post, they are still not spending as they should, and that impacts the first round or two the most. Overall quality of result from draft position has been much better '08-'11 then it was for a number of years before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 01:02 PM) im not sure this statement is true. Sale looks like a good pick. Besides that weve had the football player from LSU who has been hurt, and when healthy has hit .236 in the minors. Walker may be too early to tell, but nobody here can be impressed so far. We've added 0 depth in the later rounds as well frankly, a couple years ago KW had his "re-commitment" to finding prospects with big upside and "overhauled" our amateur scouting....well it hasnt worked one bit yet IMO, and has only gotten worse.... this was tweeted by baseball prospectus The White Sox system is so bad that I decided to write scouting reports on the characters from Real Genius instead: http://bit.ly/xQTokq Since 2008, when Buddy Bell came in and Doug Laumann took over amateur scouting, the players selected by the White Sox in the amateur draft have contributed more in at the MLB level than any other team. Unfortunately, one guy who is the main reason for that accolade is pitching for a different club now. With the Sox drafting players who are more advanced and pushing them through the minors, you get a lowly ranked farm system but production from young players on the big league team at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (3E8 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Since 2008, when Buddy Bell came in and Doug Laumann took over amateur scouting, the players selected by the White Sox in the amateur draft have contributed more in at the MLB level than any other team. Unfortunately, one guy who is the main reason for that accolade is pitching for a different club now. With the Sox drafting players who are more advanced and pushing them through the minors, you get a lowly ranked farm system but production from young players on the big league team at the same time. Got numbers? But fascinating if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 01:07 PM) Got numbers? But fascinating if true. It's not from an official publication or anything. It was research I did out a few weeks ago out of curiosity using b-r.com's draft tool. That utility will give you total bWAR by draft year for each team. Since '08, players drafted by the Sox have accumulated 12.5 wins, which is the most in the majors. Hudson - 6.5 Sale - 3.4 Beckham - 1.9 Morel - 0.6 Reed - 0.1 The Nats are the next closest with 11.1 wins, mostly thanks to Strasburg, Espinosa, Storen, and Crow (who they drafted but never actually signed). It drops off vastly from there, the Royals are the next closest with 4.5 wins. There are nine teams who have received a zero or negative contribution. Drafting high school players is obviously a viable strategy which wouldn't produce any results in this kind of analysis. I just wanted to share this fact to counter the argument that the Sox haven't drafted well since 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Then you throw in Alexei Ramirez, Viciedo and Gio Gonzalez, it's not quite so abysmal. The anger is that Hudson and Gonzalez are putting up those numbers with other clubs, obviously. And, it's about the current state of the system being bereft of many impact players. That can all change in one minor league season, and things will probably look quite a bit rosier in 12 months than they do now. Edited February 11, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 http://www.chicagonow.com/white-sox-observ...now-chris-sale/ Feel good Chris Sale analysis with lots of numbers to back it up. As noted, the confidence is going to the change more often (7% versus 17.5-22.5%) and the addition of a cutter (Don Cooper) could make him an elite pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 08:54 PM) http://www.chicagonow.com/white-sox-observ...now-chris-sale/ Feel good Chris Sale analysis with lots of numbers to back it up. As noted, the confidence is going to the change more often (7% versus 17.5-22.5%) and the addition of a cutter (Don Cooper) could make him an elite pitcher. I think the farm will be much better this year as well. They have definitley made moves to improve the pitching depth.. . we still have a far way to go but i dont think we will be on the rock bottom for much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 12:33 AM) And guess who oversaw the farm back then? Kenny Williams. Funny how much things changed once he became GM. I think Kenny Wiliams as GM saw the farm system as trade bait in order to compete as soon as possible. On one hand you can see his logic, but on the other building with your own would seem to be a more cost effective way to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:21 PM) I think the farm will be much better this year as well. They have definitley made moves to improve the pitching depth.. . we still have a far way to go but i dont think we will be on the rock bottom for much longer. Of course, if recent history is any guide, the "improvements" on the farm will be on the big league roster by sometime in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) Of course, if recent history is any guide, the "improvements" on the farm will be on the big league roster by sometime in 2013. You'd rather win an IL title. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) You'd rather win an IL title. Weird. No, I wouldn't, but the end result of that is people like you calling for KW's firing because he's taking a down year or two at the big league to develop talent at that level and leaving the system bare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) Of course, if recent history is any guide, the "improvements" on the farm will be on the big league roster by sometime in 2013. . . . Or perhaps you'd rather have a prospect guru bestow a coveted top 15 ranking on the system in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) . . . Or perhaps you'd rather have a prospect guru bestow a coveted top 15 ranking on the system in 2013. Then you'd call for KW's firing for failing to develop a winning big league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) No, I wouldn't, but the end result of that is people like you calling for KW's firing because he's taking a down year or two at the big league to develop talent at that level and leaving the system bare. The Sox are not rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 01:45 PM) Then you'd call for KW's firing for failing to develop a winning big league team. I expect the team Kenny Williams put together for 2012 to contend for an AL Central title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) I expect the team Kenny Williams put together for 2012 to contend for an AL Central title. Well, then you're still the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 01:49 PM) I expect the team Kenny Williams put together for 2012 to contend for an AL Central title. I acknowledge a possibility. I certainly don't expect it though. I expect a record similar to last season. Edited February 12, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 03:04 PM) I acknowledge a possibility. I certainly don't expect it though. I expect a record similar to last season. Basically, Kenny built a team with an outside shot at competing...but really, this team is designed to put up a record close to .500 and give him a chance to work through the contracts that are hurting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) Basically, Kenny built a team with an outside shot at competing...but really, this team is designed to put up a record close to .500 and give him a chance to work through the contracts that are hurting it. If those contracts hurt them again next year the problem is with talent evaluation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) If those contracts hurt them again next year the problem is with talent evaluation. Next year, no matter what, Jake Peavy's contract is gone. Next year, Konerko and Floyd's dollars are clear...but that $26 million on Dunn and Rios still hangs around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 There was a time I would write down when Pitchers & Catchers report on a Calendar. Now, I'd be damned if I know when they report. I just don't care this season and it BUMS. ME. OUT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) Next year, no matter what, Jake Peavy's contract is gone. Next year, Konerko and Floyd's dollars are clear...but that $26 million on Dunn and Rios still hangs around. Point is, how can you entrust the rebuilding to the same front office who missed so badly on Dunn, Rios, and Peavy? Can't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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