Rowand44 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) I know, that's why he said that's what he would trade them for. I thought it was clear that his first post was sarcastic, then when Marty didn't get it he followed it up with more sarcasm by pointing out how valuable they are. I love you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Too much thinking is required here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Nah, that's just you getting Pwned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 05:21 PM) Nah, that's just you getting Pwned. Â or... Â Â QUOTE (qwerty @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 09:49 PM) Naivety. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) If you trade Ramirez and Viciedo the target should be grade A pitching prospects. If anyone is silly enough to give up a pair of MLB-ready grade-A pitching prospects for those two, of course you take them...but no team is going to give up multiple big time pitchers for that set of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 06:31 PM) If anyone is silly enough to give up a pair of MLB-ready grade-A pitching prospects for those two, of course you take them...but no team is going to give up multiple big time pitchers for that set of players. Â Â Apparently Marty thinks it's an easy one to pull off...because we're usually so successful at identifying A ball players and projecting them eventually for the big leagues. Â That hasn't been one of the organization's strengths, either. Â Look at the Javy deal, we haven't gotten anything out of Gilmore and maybe if we're very lucky Santos R. can become a serviceable replacement for Ohman. Â After Flowers, both of those prospects were more hyped than Lillibridge, who was considered more or less a throw-in as the Braves had pretty much written him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 06:31 PM) If anyone is silly enough to give up a pair of MLB-ready grade-A pitching prospects for those two, of course you take them...but no team is going to give up multiple big time pitchers for that set of players. Â What is their worth then? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 07:34 PM) What is their worth then? Â Somewhere between Michael Bourn and Hunter Pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 09:34 PM) What is their worth then? That is their worth. Â Which is why trades of guys like that are very rare. Very few teams can even meet that price, and fewer are willing to give it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) That's why I hate the "rebuilding" people. A lot of them think rebuilding means totally demolishing the team. That won't cut it in Chicago. Sox have to try to compete/win. Â Seriously, what would you know about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well, it has worked relatively well for almost 20 years in Kansas City. Â After Glass/Wal-Mart mentality took over the team, they've made tidy profits because of the revenue-sharing but never have spent the type of dollars that Ewing Kauffman did to field one of the best teams in baseball (from roughly 1976 until the the strike). Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) Well, it has worked relatively well for almost 20 years in Kansas City. After Glass/Wal-Mart mentality took over the team, they've made tidy profits because of the revenue-sharing but never have spent the type of dollars that Ewing Kauffman did to field one of the best teams in baseball (from roughly 1976 until the the strike). "Spending the type of dollars it takes to put together a winning team" in the 70's and 80's is a different beast from doing so now that collusion has been blocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 08:04 AM) "Spending the type of dollars it takes to put together a winning team" in the 70's and 80's is a different beast from doing so now that collusion has been blocked. Â And George Brett, Willie Wilson, Hal McRae, Dan Quisenberry, and Brett Saberhagen are all retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 23, 2011 -> 11:02 PM) Seriously, what would you know about that? Â Â People in Kansas City told him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Do you have to live in Chicago to know that the White Sox do not draw if they are not good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 10:51 AM) Do you have to live in Chicago to know that the White Sox do not draw if they are not good? Â The guy constantly talks about "I'm not sure what fans in Chicago think, but..." and he goes and makes a post like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 FWIW, here is the whole Padilla story... Much more to it than just the Cowley'd quips.  http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...otential-trades  Kenny Williams eyes White Sox moves By Doug Padilla ESPNChicago.com Archive  CHICAGO -- Chicago White Sox general manager Kenny Williams confirmed Saturday that the club is open to trading some of its major league talent but potential moves won't be done to replenish the farm system.  Instead, Williams said that if deals go down this winter, the youngest the White Sox are willing to go is to obtain talent that is about to burst upon the scene.  "If we are going to move some of our talented players it will be for major league ready talent so they can grow with this nice nucleus we have in (Dayan) Viciedo and (Tyler) Flowers and (Alejandro) De Aza who came in and played hard," Williams said on ESPN 1000's "Talking Baseball" show. "We have to get (Gordon) Beckham back (playing to his potential) and (Brent) Morel. We have a nice young movement going on here."  Williams did say, though, that the White Sox won't be actively shopping their players, although they will be open to listening to offers from other clubs. Outfielder Carlos Quentin could have been moved at the non-waiver deadline in July, but Williams chose to not make a deal. The Philadelphia Phillies were said to be intent on making a deal for Quentin.  Quentin is the most likely candidate to be traded this offseason since Viciedo is ready to assume his spot in right field. Quentin, an All-Star for the second time in 2011, is only one on a list of experienced players that could garner interest from other clubs. John Danks, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton have also been named as potential trade candidates.  "They would have to be (moved for) major league ready and potential impact players," Williams said. "Will that happen? I don't know. That's why you go to the winter meetings and see that they offer you, but shopping our guys is not something we will be doing."  Two seasons ago, Beckham was deemed an untouchable by the White Sox when it came to the trade market and he's wasn't going to be moved for any price. His offensive issues that first surfaced in the first half of 2010 and then reemerged the entire 2011 season likely means the White Sox couldn't get decent value for him even if they wanted to make a deal now.  "Quite frankly I'm not expecting people to blow our doors down for some of our guys who had down years; their value is going to be down a little bit," Williams said. "What we have to do is weigh what they are offering up against what our chances are for the next season."  One of the reasons the White Sox underachieved this past season was the struggles of Adam Dunn. He batted just .159 and struck out a whopping 177 times. It was just the second time in history an every-day player (non pitcher) had a strikeout total that was higher than his batting average. (Mark) Reynolds batted .198 with 211 strikeouts in 2010.)  Williams was asked what he expects from Dunn next season in the second year of his $56 million, four-year deal.  "I've got a great idea or two and that is going to be for Adam and I to discuss privately and I haven't gotten to that yet," Williams said. "He needed a break. ... I've talked to other general managers and psychologists and a lot of different people and nobody has an answer for it. This guy is one of the most prolific power hitters in the game for almost the last decade."  Williams has taken plenty of heat for the Dunn signing last winter so in that sense, he can sympathize with new Cubs president Theo Epstein, who was blasted for his roster decisions in Boston when the Red Sox collapsed in September and failed to make the playoffs.  Williams said he reached out to Epstein at the end of the season.  "I try to send my support to other general managers in the league to tell them I see what happened, you're not alone in this and (your team) is lucky to have you," Williams said. "That is the message I sent, that I hear the criticism. This is not an easy job to do. We've had a great relationship over the years. He's creative, he's aggressive and he's always looking for an angle to make his team better."  How sorry Williams will continue to feel for Epstein in the future remains to be seen. The cross-town Cubs will once again have a much higher payroll than the White Sox, which will require Williams to be creative himself when it comes to improving his roster.  "Believe me, as long as I am sitting in the chair we will continue to be as aggressive as we can possibly be," Williams said. "If it turns out that we can't reasonably expect the talent we have to compete for a championship them I might have dial it back and move today's talent for tomorrow's talent that will extend a run longer for us in the future.  "But none of that has been determined and won't be determined until we get a gauge on what other teams feel about our players."  Doug Padilla covers the White Sox for ESPNChicago.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 04:02 AM) Seriously, what would you know about that? Â Do you think our fans will go out to support a horses*** baseball team? I'm from Chicago. My family lives there. I've been a Sox fan forever. Sox are second class team compared to Cubs. Sox MUST WIN to draw. Am I incorrect in this assertion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) "I try to send my support to other general managers in the league to tell them I see what happened, you're not alone in this and (your team) is lucky to have you," Williams said. "That is the message I sent, that I hear the criticism. This is not an easy job to do." Â Lovely, KW. Â How about worrying more about your team's future and less about playing MLB psychoanalyst/therapist/GM support group mentor guy? Â Or maybe you can delegate some of your responsibilities to Hahn.... Edited October 24, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Come on Caulfield...he needs to maintain relationships with the other 29 gms...the whole "trade" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) "I try to send my support to other general managers in the league to tell them I see what happened, you're not alone in this and (your team) is lucky to have you," Williams said. "That is the message I sent, that I hear the criticism. This is not an easy job to do."Â Lovely, KW. Â How about worrying more about your team's future and less about playing MLB psychoanalyst/therapist/GM support group mentor guy? Â Or maybe you can delegate some of your responsibilities to Hahn.... Â You don't think there is a relationship between who you trust, and who you do deals with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) You don't think there is a relationship between who you trust, and who you do deals with? Â I don't think KW is quite as philanthropic/altruistic as he makes himself out to be. Â It's usually self-serving, whatever "nuggets" he provides to the press...I mean, was it really necessary that he publicize something like this? Â I get the idea behind it, but I would rather see results than idle talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) I don't think KW is quite as philanthropic/altruistic as he makes himself out to be. It's usually self-serving, whatever "nuggets" he provides to the press...I mean, was it really necessary that he publicize something like this?  I get the idea behind it, but I would rather see results than idle talk.  Kind of hard to do anything to get any sort of results at this point of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) I don't think KW is quite as philanthropic/altruistic as he makes himself out to be. It's usually self-serving, whatever "nuggets" he provides to the press...I mean, was it really necessary that he publicize something like this?  I get the idea behind it, but I would rather see results than idle talk.  Because he was asked about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) "I try to send my support to other general managers in the league to tell them I see what happened, you're not alone in this and (your team) is lucky to have you," Williams said. "That is the message I sent, that I hear the criticism. This is not an easy job to do."Â Lovely, KW. Â How about worrying more about your team's future and less about playing MLB psychoanalyst/therapist/GM support group mentor guy? Â Or maybe you can delegate some of your responsibilities to Hahn.... How many other GMs talk about how hard the job is as much as KW? If its so hard, he should quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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