Soxbadger Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 What Angelo did should surprise no one. He was with the Bucs before the Bears, teams that had great defenses, but lost due to offense. Hes a bad gm, just most of his problems are self inflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Let's review the last many drafts. 2011 1 29 Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin 2 53 Stephen Paea DT Oregon State 3 93 Chris Conte FS California 5 160 Nathan Enderle QB Idaho 6 195 J.T. Thomas LB West Virginia 1st round - OT Gabe Carimi - too early to call, but the promise is there. The rest? Also too early, but my money is on "complete s***". 2010 3 75 Major Wright FS Florida 4 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern 5 140 Joshua Moore CB Kansas State 6 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan 7 218 J'Marcus Webb OT West Texas A&M Picks in rounds 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - all are bad. The crown jewel Major Wright is terrible. Did get Jay Cutler, whom they haven't bothered to protect. -Starting LT in the 7th round. What a terrible pick. Even if he has been bad this year and is getting beat constantly, he's shown more in roughly a year than Chris Williams has in 2 years, and they were only drafted some 200 picks apart. J'Marcus Webb is not a bad pick. 2009 3 68 Jarron Gilbert Defensive Tackle San Jose State 3 99 Juaquin Iglesias Wide Receiver Oklahoma 4 105 Henry Melton Defensive End Texas 4 119 D.J. Moore Cornerback Vanderbilt 5 140 Johnny Knox Wide Receiver Abilene Christian 5 154 Marcus Freeman Linebacker Ohio State 6 190 Al Afalava Safety Oregon State 7 246 Lance Louis Tight End / Offensive Lineman San Diego State 7 251 Derek Kinder Wide Receiver Pittsburgh 9 picks, the first of which was a guy who jumps out of swimming pools and never did anything. Johnny Knox in the 5th round was decent. Melton and Moore might wind up as solid starters -getting 2 current starters in rounds 4 and 5 plus another pretty good player in DJ Moore is more than good enough value for those picks. 2008 1 14 Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt 2 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane 3 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt 3 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas 4 120 Craig Steltz S LSU 5 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska 5 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State 7 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State 7 222 Chester Adams OG Georgia 7 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State 7 247 Kirk Barton OT Ohio State 7 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas 7 picks in the first 5 rounds. Hit their 2nd rounder out of the ballpark with Forte, but hurt themselves just as much with busted 1st and 3rd rounders in Chris Williams and Earl Bennett. With a total of 12 picks, the Bears hit on one of them. -Bennett is a perfectly capable slot receiver. That's legitimate value as a 3rd round pick. Expecting more out of him or a 3rd round pick is asking too much. Yes, it can happen, but you should never grow to expect it. -Kellen Davis is a perfectly capable starting tight end but because of the system, he's generally wasted as a blocker and as a mediocre red zone target (because Martz never gets him out of his stance). 2007 1 31 Greg Olsen Tight end Miami 2 62 Dan Bazuin Defensive End Central Michigan 3 93 Garrett Wolfe Running back Northern Illinois 3 94 Michael Okwo Linebacker Stanford 4 130 Josh Beekman Guard Boston College 5 167 Kevin Payne Strong Safety Louisiana-Monroe 5 168 Corey Graham Cornerback New Hampshire 7 221 Trumaine McBride Cornerback Ole Miss 7 241 Aaron Brant Offensive Tackle Iowa State 9 picks. Greg Olsen at the end of the 1st round... he fell, they made the right pick. Years later, the Bears give away their only productive receiver for a 3rd rounder. Bears take Garrett Wolfe in the 3rd f***ing round. Wow. Corey Graham in the 5th was ok. -The Bears hiring Martz was the worst thing in the world that could have happened to G-Reg. Looking at the entirety of it all, this is probably Angelo's worst draft. 2006 Round Pick Name Position College 2 42 Danieal Manning Safety Abilene Christian 2 57 Devin Hester Cornerback Miami 3 73 Dusty Dvoracek Defensive tackle Oklahoma 4 120 Jamar Williams Linebacker Arizona State 5 159 Mark Anderson Defensive End Alabama 6 195 J.D. Runnels Fullback Oklahoma 6 200 Tyler Reed Guard Penn State Devin Hester in the 3rd round. Obviously a home run. The rest? Daniel Manning was decent. -Mark Anderson in the 5th was quite valuable. Even if it was just for the 1 year, he still put up 12 sacks. That does have value. I don't think I've ever seen someone more overly critical of a front office executive in any post other than this one. He hasn't drafted well - it probably is the worst in the league but there are several others for whom you could make an argument (you know, those teams that haven't made the playoffs in anywhere between 7-13 years?), but there are quite a few players in here that you have ripped to shreds for no reason at all. The biggest two to me are J'Marcus Webb and Earl Bennett. It would be fun, though, to look at every team's draft from the last 5 years like this. How many players do you think are still in the NFL? I'm going to guess that number is anywhere from 50-60%. How many do you think are starters (or play roughly starter's snaps)? I'm going to guess that one is closer to 30%. How many do you think actually pan out? I'm going to guess that is anywhere between 10-20%. I would also suggest that player development has as much to do with the supporting cast - your coaching staff and current players on the team - as it does about actually calling that player's name on draft day. Do you really believe that Austin Collie is a better and more talented player than Juaquin Iglesias, or do you think it may have something to do with the Bears general inability to develop WRs while Peyton Manning could throw to a D3 short, slow WR and still find him in the split second he was open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) but there are quite a few players in here that you have ripped to shreds for no reason at all. The biggest two to me are J'Marcus Webb and Earl Bennett. Earl Bennett didn't play his entire rookie season... just because... That's unacceptable for a 3rd round draft pick. As for Webb, just because he's been thrust into the starting role his first two years doesn't make him a good player or a good pick. It's just simply more evidence that Angelo can't build a complete team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Dusty Dvorcek I thought was going to be pretty good but he got hurt. Anderson was also pretty good, at least for a season. Isn't he doing ok with his new team? The bigger point, obviously, is that Angelo hasn't drafted well, and worse, hasn't addressed the glaring problems with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) Anderson was also pretty good, at least for a season. Isn't he doing ok with his new team? Yeah, it was interesting that he fell out of favor here. He didn't do much in Houston last year, but is off to a pretty sweet start with the Pats this year being used solely as a rusher on passing downs. 4 sacks in 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Yeah, it was interesting that he fell out of favor here. He didn't do much in Houston last year, but is off to a pretty sweet start with the Pats this year being used solely as a rusher on passing downs. 4 sacks in 5 games. Another screw up by the Bears. His rookie year he was only a pass rusher and had a great year as we all know. Then they decided to make him a full-time starter and teams ran all over the Bears in his direction. That also ruined his pass rushing production. Then he started falling out of favor and then he gawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Packers have only drafted 8 players since 2007 that aren't in the NFL currently. Only three of those players are from beofre the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Angelo has actually attempted to address the issues with this team. Its just they rarely find the right player who can actually perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 So it's not a lack of effort, he's just incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 04:35 PM) So it's not a lack of effort, he's just incompetent. Clearly the dude fields phone calls and sends scouts out and works, he's just s***ty at his job and has a s***ty team around him. Players, Coaches, Management All.Bad. save a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Dave Toub:Chicago Bears::Don Cooper:White Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I wouldn't be opposed to making Toub HC one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 04:41 PM) Clearly the dude fields phone calls and sends scouts out and works, he's just s***ty at his job and has a s***ty team around him. Players, Coaches, Management All.Bad. save a few. To some extent, he's hit big on free agents (Thomas Jones becoming a competent player wasn't unexpected, but becoming a guy you could argue was a top 8 overall back in the league was pretty far-fetched), and generally when they do hit on picks they, they hit hard. Johnny Knox is the first receiver that I can say is legitimately good in a long, long time, and really that is handicapped because there are still a ton of things Knox does wrong. David Terrell had like one good years, as did Marcus Robinson, as did Bernard Berrian (and in fact, Berrian was pretty much just a deep threat and put up a lot of the numbers he did because Sexy would just chuck it deep, but he was atleast semi-competent). You would think they'd be able to develop one #1 receiver, even if it's in the form of a Steve Johnson or a Derrick Mason...just a good possession receiver who doesn't break away from the defense but runs good, crisp routes and catches balls. Nope. Like I said, I'm not suggesting Angelo is good at drafting - anything but. Just that you were a little overly critical of some of the picks, but what he's done is really unjustifiable and he is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSideTeacher Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Oct 11, 2011 -> 11:23 AM) Hester should be used in about 4-6 special plays designed for him per game, not running reciever routes on almost every offensive play. THIS. absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:25 AM) Johnny Knox is the first receiver that I can say is legitimately good in a long, long time, and really that is handicapped because there are still a ton of things Knox does wrong. I think your definition of "legitimately good" is about as far from reality as possible. Knox is fast, but his hands are suspect, he runs out of bounds, and he shies away from contact like Oprah avoids treadmills. He's the cream of the crop, but this crop is infected and buried in manure. Marcus Robinson, btw, was legit as hell, but that injury after his breakout season effectively ruined his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Ah, man, marcus robinsons one game against the vikings was so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 08:38 AM) Ah, man, marcus robinsons one game against the vikings was so great. He and big Jim Miller just bombin' it all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 08:38 AM) Ah, man, marcus robinsons one game against the vikings was so great. I remember that game, awesome performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/bears-talk/...tm_medium=email Lovie Smith has rarely been slow to make changes and to hold players very accountable for the performances. A defensive back lost a job at halftime of an opening day. Another was out of the starting lineup after a first game. A quarterback went from starter to cut after a preseason game. An offensive lineman was benched (twice) during games this season. Changes are coming this week for a Bears team that has lost three of its last four. “There’s always a chance,” Smith said, coming as close as he ever does early in a week to making a flat-out proclamation regarding positions and players. “We’re not pleased with some of the performances we’ve gotten. I, of course, never talk about changes we’re going to make, especially before we hit the practice field and we talk to the guys. It’s always a chance of [change], yes.” Nothing will be official until game day but a number of shifts are being explored. Offensive lining The struggles of the offensive line were on national display Monday against Detroit, where the Lions’ sack total (3) was less the story than the overall chaos their front caused for the Bears’. Jay Cutler survived the onslaught and incessant false-starting, but “survive” is not a winning goal. The Minnesota Vikings have right defensive end Jared Allen with nearly as many sacks (8.5 sacks) alone as the Bears as a team (9) as well as 16 quarterback hits, plus Brian Robison (4.5 sacks, 16 quarterback hits) on the opposite side. Right tackle Frank Omiyale was benched during both the Carolina and Detroit games. He will not get a third chance. Instead, Lance Louis is expected to remain at right tackle, where he moved to replace Omiyale in Detroit. Chris Spencer is expected to open at right guard, where he started three games before sitting out against Detroit because of concerns over his fractured right hand. “We made a lot of mistakes out there, and you can’t do that when you’re facing a good football team,” said center Roberto Garza. “It’s correctable and we have to correct it. I know we’ve been saying that, but that sense of urgency is definitely here, and we have to go out and get the job done.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Harris & Meriweather benched. Conte & Wright to start at safety Sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 07:29 AM) I think your definition of "legitimately good" is about as far from reality as possible. Knox is fast, but his hands are suspect, he runs out of bounds, and he shies away from contact like Oprah avoids treadmills. He's the cream of the crop, but this crop is infected and buried in manure. Marcus Robinson, btw, was legit as hell, but that injury after his breakout season effectively ruined his career. Why the heck did we let Aromashadu go again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) Harris & Meriweather benched. Conte & Wright to start at safety Sunday night. Meriweather should be banned from the NFL with the way he plays. Our safties blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) Why the heck did we let Aromashadu go again? He refused to learn any other WR position than #1 is what I have heard. Just wasnt interested in the slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) Harris & Meriweather benched. Conte & Wright to start at safety Sunday night. The Bears have used five different starting safety combinations in six games. It’s been a revolving door position in Chicago for years. At some point, you wonder if it's really the players who are at fault here. Angelo's failure 101. Edited October 13, 2011 by Soxfest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I found this somewhat amusing: http://www.athlonsports.com/overtime/mike-...ensive-playbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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