OK, so enlighten me as to what you meant. I make the point that some people here condemn Cowley and then go on to make sexist or racist remarks, and then point out the part of your post that makes huge assumptions about the mindset of illegals, grouping them all together.

 

And the part you vehemently deny is where I said you 'condemn Cowley'? Got it.

You just have completely missed the entire reason as to why Cowley doing what he did is different than say if I were to post "women have tiny brains" on Soxtalk.

Mexico and the US are culturally in different places with regard to sexism. What does that have to do with race, genius?

 

 

I'm half hispanic. Shall I just assume 1) my relatives are sexists 2) culturally they were never told not to be? Either you're assuming Latin America is unenlightened, and that everyone mistreats women, or you're making some more subtle point that I'm missing.

 

I'll tell you what, my relatives in Beverly (on the other side of my family) are definitely the ones I catch saying drunk racist/sexist things at parties. Not the hispanic half of my family.

Edited April 30, 201213 yr by Jose Paniagua

You just have completely missed the entire reason as to why Cowley doing what he did is different than say if I were to post "women have tiny brains" on Soxtalk.

 

 

Again, I am not at all discussing here the ins-and-outs of workplace sexism, employers/employees and twitter and all that part of it. I understand that's a big part of it; it just simply isn't part of my initial post.

 

All I'm saying is some people on soxtalk right now will have the following two mindsets 1) "the world is too P.C." and 2) "I wish Cowley would get fired".

 

 

 

And as a result of the people here that have those two viewpoints, operating at once -- I'm merely saying I'm entertained. My point isn't any deeper than that.

Edited April 30, 201213 yr by Jose Paniagua

I'm half hispanic. Shall I just assume 1) my relatives are sexists 2) culturally they were never told not to be? Either you're assuming Latin America is unenlightened, and that everyone mistreats women, or you're making some more subtle point that I'm missing.

 

I'll tell you what, my relatives in Beverly (on the other side of my family) are definitely the ones I catch saying drunk racist/sexist things at parties. Not the hispanic half of my family.

You are all over the map, saying I said things I didn't.

 

Do your relatives even live in mexico?

 

I am not making any points, subtle or otherwise about anyone I didn't have experience with.

Again, I am not at all discussing here the ins-and-outs of workplace sexism, employers/employees and twitter and all that part of it. I understand that's a big part of it; it just simply isn't part of my initial post.

 

All I'm saying is some people on soxtalk right now will have the following two mindsets 1) "the world is too P.C." and 2) I wish Cowley would get fired.

 

 

 

And to the people that have those two viewpoints, I'm merely saying I'm entertained. My point isn't any deeper than that.

I think you're just confused.

I think you're just confused.

 

 

Simple question Steve - if a racist wants Cowley fired for this, is that funny to you?

 

My answer is yes.

I am not even sure if sexism is morally wrong, philosophically. I haven't really examined it. I do think its a logically stupid position to take.

I'm half hispanic. Shall I just assume 1) my relatives are sexists 2) culturally they were never told not to be? Either you're assuming Latin America is unenlightened, and that everyone mistreats women, or you're making some more subtle point that I'm missing.

 

I'll tell you what, my relatives in Beverly (on the other side of my family) are definitely the ones I catch saying drunk racist/sexist things at parties. Not the hispanic half of my family.

If they said it in the workplace, they would have consequences. You can go over to a girl at a bar and say something offensive to her. She may slap you or throw a drink on you or walk away. You say the same thing to a colleague at work, you could wind up unemployed. Sex, age, religion....these are some of the things you can't pop off about in the workplace. If someone is offended, you're in trouble. Sure, Cowley's done it before and the Sun Times, at least from what we can tell, didn't act, but maybe no one complained. Once there is a compliant, they are obligated to investigate. I'm sure they have a policy in place, and I would guess termination is one of the possible consequences.

You are all over the map, saying I said things I didn't.

 

Do your relatives even live in mexico?

 

I am not making any points, subtle or otherwise about anyone I didn't have experience with.

 

 

Peru, I've been there 4 times. On that side of my family I'm 1st generation in the U.S., lots of family still are there.

 

You are right that I shouldn't put words in your mouth. You say that culturally the US and Mexico are in different places with regard to sexism. I would just state that there are sexists in Mexico that get away with s*** and some that get put in their place.

 

Just like over here.

Edited April 30, 201213 yr by Jose Paniagua

Peru, I've been there 4 times. On that side of my family I'm 1st generation in the U.S., lots of family still are there.

 

You are right that I shouldn't put words in your mouth. You say that culturally the US and Mexico are in different places with regard to sexism. I would just state that there are sexists in Mexico that get away with s*** and some that get put in their place.

 

Just like over here.

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

Racism is also logically stupid to me. I try to avoid being stupid when I can.

Edited April 30, 201213 yr by MAX

Simple question Steve - if a racist wants Cowley fired for this, is that funny to you?

 

My answer is yes.

I just don't really care about other people and their opinions nearly as much as you, I guess.

It's too bad that you can get fired for writing what Cowley wrote. He didn't do anything illegal and people with his views have the right to a job they are qualified for.

It's too bad that you can get fired for writing what Cowley wrote. He didn't do anything illegal and people with his views have the right to a job they are qualified for.

The workplace would be insane if you could just say whatever came to your mind. He's smart enough to know where the line is, Ozzie just got in trouble a baseball player just got fined for a tweet, he just has such an inflated opinion of himself and his (lack of ) talent, he crossed it. Did he even apologize? And if its satire, are his columns satire as well?

It's too bad that you can get fired for writing what Cowley wrote. He didn't do anything illegal and people with his views have the right to a job they are qualified for.

I can think of 12.7 million other people who wish that it was true that people had a right to a job they were qualified for.

It's too bad that you can get fired for writing what Cowley wrote. He didn't do anything illegal and people with his views have the right to a job they are qualified for.

 

I agree he didn't do anything illegal, but he did do something mean and sexist while representing his employer. You don't have to do something illegal to get fired.

 

And nobody is denying him a job he is qualified for, he is getting suspended or fired for violating a workplace policy regarding sexism(presumably).

 

I have seen it happen at my own workplace, I'm sure you have too.

 

If he would have stuck to ripping the people he covers and kept it somewhat HR friendly, we would only be arguing about his axe to grind. He made this bed.

One thing you guys have to keep in mind though, is that his job isn't as an accountant or a trader or a auditor or a marketer. His job is to entertain people via published commentary on sports. Apparently he also is given free reign to be a bit of a "personality" and comments on any number of life experiences via his Twitter account, which, and there is no escaping this, bears the acronym of his employer (CST).

 

While that doesn't give him carte blanche to just go about insulting protected groups, he isn't (or at least he shouldn't, IMO) going to be held to the same standard as Bill the bank teller or something. It is sort of his job to entertain people by commenting on others.

 

So we should probably compare him and his actions to others in his line of work instead of those in normal workplace atmospheres.

 

Just a thought.

You're joking. You have to be. Seriously, try saying s*** like that in your workplace, and see how that goes over.

 

Its not about pussified, and everyone here but you and Marty realizes that its Joe who needs to grow up. And talk about being "pussified" - the guy can't say s*** like that to anyone in person of course, he's too afraid to, so he posts it via social media and he's gone before they know about it. Now that is "pussified".

America is a bunch of p*****s because open sexism isn't tolerated. Our country is lost.

America is a bunch of p*****s because open sexism isn't tolerated. Our country is lost.

See, I am of the opinion that you guys are being a bit harsh on Greg here.

 

Yes, almost everyone sees the need to keep this sort of thing out of the workplace...but let's not all deny the fact that the reason it does leach into the "inappropriate" areas so often is because it is so prevalent in every day culture.

 

Oftentimes, it's the very guy that fires Joe Cowley that laughs at the joke Joe made while out on the golf course with his colleagues.

 

I understand the need for the laws, but I always find the feigned outrage a bit disingenuous.

It's too bad that you can get fired for writing what Cowley wrote. He didn't do anything illegal and people with his views have the right to a job they are qualified for.

Cowley has no right to a job and a platform for his stupidity.

Of course Marty doesnt agree, he is Joe.

 

Second, workplaces like the Sun Times make you sign a contract that makes it grounds for termination if any discriminatory behavior is shown, and Joe showed it publicly, to a colleague. He's "guilty" of being a f***ing idiot. People are fired for their personal pictures on facebook if its against your company policy. I know at my small company we are bound to our behavior on social media sites and anything against the rules is grounds for termination.

One thing you guys have to keep in mind though, is that his job isn't as an accountant or a trader or a auditor or a marketer. His job is to entertain people via published commentary on sports. Apparently he also is given free reign to be a bit of a "personality" and comments on any number of life experiences via his Twitter account, which, and there is no escaping this, bears the acronym of his employer (CST).

 

While that doesn't give him carte blanche to just go about insulting protected groups, he isn't (or at least he shouldn't, IMO) going to be held to the same standard as Bill the bank teller or something. It is sort of his job to entertain people by commenting on others.

 

So we should probably compare him and his actions to others in his line of work instead of those in normal workplace atmospheres.

 

Just a thought.

How does making sexist remarks about female pilots fall under his line of work?

How does making sexist remarks about female pilots fall under his line of work?

Find the sentence where I claimed it was...

See, I am of the opinion that you guys are being a bit harsh on Greg here.

 

Yes, almost everyone sees the need to keep this sort of thing out of the workplace...but let's not all deny the fact that the reason it does leach into the "inappropriate" areas so often is because it is so prevalent in every day culture.

 

Oftentimes, it's the very guy that fires Joe Cowley that laughs at the joke Joe made while out on the golf course with his colleagues.

 

I understand the need for the laws, but I always find the feigned outrage a bit disingenuous.

I'd like for sexism to be kept out of society, not just "the workplace." But not giving someone a platform to broadcast those remarks is a good start!

 

There is no law at play here.

See, I am of the opinion that you guys are being a bit harsh on Greg here.

 

Yes, almost everyone sees the need to keep this sort of thing out of the workplace...but let's not all deny the fact that the reason it does leach into the "inappropriate" areas so often is because it is so prevalent in every day culture.

 

Oftentimes, it's the very guy that fires Joe Cowley that laughs at the joke Joe made while out on the golf course with his colleagues.

 

I understand the need for the laws, but I always find the feigned outrage a bit disingenuous.

At the very least, he cannot take steps that cost his employer substantially more money than he makes for his employer. If he's put the Sun Times at a lawsuit risk here by bringing "locker room" statements out into the open, then the ST has to replace him. If he's solely there to get the ST press coverage, positive or negative, then I'd say that it's a great reason not to buy the Sun Times and to start emailing people who advertise in the Sun Times sports section asking them if they want their company to be associated with this kind of personality. Just like the ST has the right to decide whether or not to keep him, I also have that right to express my opinion to them and to their advertisers.

 

In fact, I think State Farm is about to get that email.

Find the sentence where I claimed it was...

I will compare him to others in his line of work: who else in his line of work makes sexist tweets like this? Why would his position as a sports colomist make him any different from another ST employee?