The hitting coaches thread

[caulfield12]

 

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/201...ut-greg-walker/

 

No, this isn't what you would expect.

 

I researched and found an article that actually supports DA's position...that said, I found some of Walker's comments interesting (if not unexpected) about the wear and tear of the last two seasons with the White Sox and that it was beyond time to part ways mutually (and supposedly, Reinsdorf wanted to keep Walker around for this season, if you believe the rumors).

 

On the other hand, we've also seen huge progress with Adam Dunn (the medicine ball between the legs to limit his over-striding, for example), Rios has shown (until recently) big signs of improvement, AJ was the co-offensive MVP (along with Konerko) in the early season. DeAza has been about what everyone expected (we all knew he would fall off from a 900 OPS, that clearly wasn't sustainable).

 

For now the main concerns are Ramirez and Viciedo (both Cubans always start cold, and Manto seems to love Viciedo)...Morel, of course, and Gordon Beckham, whose OPS now is an improvement on 2011. That and the fact that our bench doesn't provide much at all to work with, other than Lillibridge. Fukudome's near the end of his career, but it must be difficult working with Flowers and Lilly when they're getting so few opportunities in games to develop any sustainable type of rhythm and consistent approach. (Perhaps in a few days, Lilly will become the starting 3B if Morel continues to struggle and needs to be sent down).

 

As Balta said, we were losing 8 wins from the losses of Santos/Quentin/Buehrle and now the idea that Sale's addition to the rotation would negate Mark's loss has been wiped out by his move to the bullpen and Danks' horrid start.

 

All things considered, both teams have to be happy with their new hitting coaches. The Braves clearly have more "in their prime" offensive talent (McCann and Heyward are close to superstar level, Uggla's always been a potent hitter, Freeman is very impressive, etc.)

 

One other thing, from the comments sections, it seems a LOT of the players were happy to have TWO hitting coaches. One is more mechanical, the other about visualization, this approach would seem to work very well for teams where the hitting/pitching coaches are not egomaniacs (as Walker is clearly not) and don't mind sharing some of the responsibilities. Just like teachers don't always get through to some students, different approaches and personalities can mesh where maybe only having Walker to work with in Chicago was becoming counterproductive for the likes of Beckham, Dunn and Rios last season.

 

To summarize, the exchange of Walker for Manto has worked for both teams, and both organizations should be pleased.

[RME JICO]

I researched and found an article that actually supports DA's position...that said, I found some of Walker's comments interesting (if not unexpected) about the wear and tear of the last two seasons with the White Sox and that it was beyond time to part ways mutually (and supposedly, Reinsdorf wanted to keep Walker around for this season, if you believe the rumors).

About Walker's comments, I believe everyone witnessed what he was feeling. It had a lot to do with the environment created by Ozzie and KW. No wonder Dunn came in and bottomed out and Rios struggled. I still believe some of these coaches get too much credit for successes and too much blame for failures. Sometimes it just takes the right type of person to get through to certain players who are struggling. Also, looking at the Braves' stats, no one is considerably better than last year other than Bourn. Most have came back down to earth since a hot start.

[caulfield12]

2012 White Sox in their first 27 games, 107 runs scored (13-14)

2011 White Sox in their first 27 games, 107 runs scored (10-17)

 

However, there's ONE key difference. In 2011, we scored 40 runs in our first 5 games, then went on to score only 67 in our next 22 (3.04 p/g).

 

This year, we've been much more balanced, overall.

 

In terms of runs scored and OPS, we're currently 9th in both categories in the AL (ahead of Seattle, KC, LAA, Minnesota and Oakland). Last year, we were 11th. (Obviously the Royals and Angels have been disappointments).

 

So there are improvements taking place, especially when you consider the subtraction of Carlos Quentin from the line-up for what's basically a rookie in Viciedo.

 

Runs Scored Per Game

7. Indians, 4.52

8. Tigers, 4.31

9. White Sox, 3.96

 

Also, yesterday was the first time in 11 tries we won a game where we scored 3 runs or less.

 

 

[caulfield12]

About Walker's comments, I believe everyone witnessed what he was feeling. It had a lot to do with the environment created by Ozzie and KW. No wonder Dunn came in and bottomed out and Rios struggled. I still believe some of these coaches get too much credit for successes and too much blame for failures. Sometimes it just takes the right type of person to get through to certain players who are struggling. Also, looking at the Braves' stats, no one is considerably better than last year other than Bourn. Most have came back down to earth since a hot start.

 

And with Bourn, you'd expect part of that improvement is simply more time and familiarity with the pitchers in the NL East, comfort level of coming into spring training with the same team, not being placed on the pressure-cooker of leading off in the middle of a stressful August/September pennant race and also being constantly reminded of the fact that they sent a couple of their best young prospects to the Astros to acquire you.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

And with Bourn, you'd expect part of that improvement is simply more time and familiarity with the pitchers in the NL East, comfort level of coming into spring training with the same team, not being placed on the pressure-cooker of leading off in the middle of a stressful August/September pennant race and also being constantly reminded of the fact that they sent a couple of their best young prospects to the Astros to acquire you.

Or it's the fact that Bourn is currently sporting a .396 BABIP.

[RME JICO]

And with Bourn, you'd expect part of that improvement is simply more time and familiarity with the pitchers in the NL East, comfort level of coming into spring training with the same team, not being placed on the pressure-cooker of leading off in the middle of a stressful August/September pennant race and also being constantly reminded of the fact that they sent a couple of their best young prospects to the Astros to acquire you.

Definitely, there is some natural progression in there.

 

Or it's the fact that Bourn is currently sporting a .396 BABIP.

lol, very true, didn't even look at that. Somewhat unsustainable.

 

 

I just think it is funny to write an article about a hitting coach two weeks into a season, seems like a small sample size to analyze. Additionally, I wouldn't expect any other comments from Braves' players about their coaches.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox currently have the same team OPS they had as a team for the 2011 season. Getting rid of Greg Walker hasn't provided the improvement most thought.

 

The Cubs spent a boatload of money bringing in a former Soxtalk favorite, Rudy Jaramillo. Their players who couldn't hit, still can't hit.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox currently have the same team OPS they had as a team for the 2011 season. Getting rid of Greg Walker hasn't provided the improvement most thought.

 

The Cubs spent a boatload of money bringing in a former Soxtalk favorite, Rudy Jaramillo. Their players who couldn't hit, still can't hit.

 

 

And what is the average OPS in MLB this year?

 

2011? It's down from 730 to 720, so having the same OPS as last year would mathematically be an improvement according to the laws of statistical analysis.

 

Let me guess, it's lower this year. We can argue the definition of improvement, but how can you account for an offense who didn't add anything significant (and actually lost one of its best OPS performers in Quentin) and has probably the weakest bench offensively in the majors leagues outperforming the 2011 version?

 

Last year was just a "fluke" year or unlucky, right? Some of the hitters like Dunn are simply returning to their historical norms and last year was an outlier? Well, then the same arguments can be made for Heyward, who was commonly pronounced one of the future superstars of the game by every scout in the country.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Consider this a warning, no more threads calling out people by name. It is unnecessary and sets a bad tone on the board of confrontation.

[Dick Allen]

And what is the average OPS in MLB this year?

 

2011? It's down from 730 to 720, so having the same OPS as last year would mathematically be an improvement according to the laws of statistical analysis.

 

Let me guess, it's lower this year. We can argue the definition of improvement, but how can you account for an offense who didn't add anything significant (and actually lost one of its best OPS performers in Quentin) and has probably the weakest bench offensively in the majors leagues outperforming the 2011 version?

 

Last year was just a "fluke" year or unlucky, right? Some of the hitters like Dunn are simply returning to their historical norms and last year was an outlier? Well, then the same arguments can be made for Heyward, who was commonly pronounced one of the future superstars of the game by every scout in the country.

I don't know if you're trying to call me out or what, but the timing of this is peculiar. The Sox are at where they were at last year offensively, and Atlanta leads MLB in runs scored. It would be kind of hard to make my viewpoint look foolish at the moment.

[caulfield12]

Okay, I'm offering an olive branch.

 

I won't mention Don Cooper for another 27 games, until Game 54.

 

Will you agree not to mention Greg Walker, no matter what happens with the Braves and the White Sox?

 

On that day, we can open the debate again. Right now, the results are premature and inconclusive. You can argue we might not even know until 2013 or 2014, but let's table the discussion (at least) until that point.

 

I know it will tempting if Dylan Axelrod gets rocked to say that Don Cooper can't work miracles...or if he pitches a great game, many would say Cooper took a pitcher with just average major league stuff and made him serviceable, so I'm agreeing to refrain one way or the other.

Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Okay, I'm offering an olive branch.

 

I won't mention Don Cooper for another 27 games, until Game 54.

 

Will you agree not to mention Greg Walker, no matter what happens with the Braves and the White Sox?

 

On that day, we can open the debate again. Right now, the results are premature and inconclusive. You can argue we might not even know until 2013 or 2014, but let's table the discussion (at least) until that point.

 

I know it will tempting if Dylan Axelrod gets rocked to say that Don Cooper can't work miracles...or if he pitches a great game, many would say Cooper took a pitcher with just average major league stuff and made him serviceable, so I'm agreeing to refrain one way or the other.

 

How about we just never talk about Walker again? Walker leaving was a move that had to happen in order to see if a different point of view could salvage the careers of about half our starting lineup. I've said this a million times, but even if Walker was the greatest hitting coach ever, it was time for a change to see if something else could click with our hitters. I wish Walker well with the Braves.

[caulfield12]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...asses-test.html

 

Gordon Beckham diagnosis by Manto...good read

[greg775]

Scott Merkin just tweeted this. Cue people to hate on Merkin here.

 

 

"Good to see/read Greg Walker doing well in Atlanta. Great person and one of the more underrated coaches in Chicago sports history ~"