Connecticut school shooting

[caulfield12]

I guess it's a bit easier for Bloomberg to go off on President Obama...since there's probably a closer split in NYC over gun rights.

 

No matter how many times one discusses this issue of the right to have a gun as part of a militia (which was the context 200 years ago with the Revolutionary War and War of 1812), the Articles of Confederation (especially), where there was not one unified national military for the new country...the argument keeps going around and around in circles.

 

One wonders when the "tipping point" will actually come where people start changing their minds on this gun control/gun rights issue.

[Reddy]

I know because I spend time with my family and I pay attention to them. Given people can snap.. but this kid was mentally messed up and they knew it and he needed help. If he would have gotten the help he may not have done this is all I'm saying. Just having a gun doesn't make it more likely people are going to go on rampages.. hell if he didn't have a gun, he could have made pipe bombs, molotov cocktails... what ever to do the job.

but the fact that the guns were in the house and accessible made it EASIER for him to kill 20+ kids.

[Reddy]

I guess it's a bit easier for Bloomberg to go off on President Obama...since there's probably a closer split in NYC over gun rights.

 

No matter how many times one discusses this issue of the right to have a gun as part of a militia (which was the context 200 years ago with the Revolutionary War and War of 1812), the Articles of Confederation (especially), where there was not one unified national military for the new country...the argument keeps going around and around in circles.

 

One wonders when the "tipping point" will actually come where people start changing their minds on this gun control/gun rights issue.

this was it. mark my words. this s*** ain't going away this time.

[EvilJester99]

I guess it's a bit easier for Bloomberg to go off on President Obama...since there's probably a closer split in NYC over gun rights.

 

No matter how many times one discusses this issue of the right to have a gun as part of a militia (which was the context 200 years ago with the Revolutionary War and War of 1812), the Articles of Confederation (especially), where there was not one unified national military for the new country...the argument keeps going around and around in circles.

 

One wonders when the "tipping point" will actually come where people start changing their minds on this gun control/gun rights issue.

I doubt it will ever come... many people will refuse to give up their guns. As I told a friend earlier on, they made alcohol illegal and that didn't stop anyone from getting alcohol. All it will do is bring forth the black market gun dealers and people will still get guns... it won't stop anything.

[EvilJester99]

but the fact that the guns were in the house and accessible made it EASIER for him to kill 20+ kids.

That all goes to poor judgement on the mothers part... she knew her kid was troubled. She decided it was a good idea to buy guns anyway. Bad parenting there.

[Reddy]

I doubt it will ever come... many people will refuse to give up their guns. As I told a friend earlier on, they made alcohol illegal and that didn't stop anyone from getting alcohol. All it will do is bring forth the black market gun dealers and people will still get guns... it won't stop anything.

the average american isn't going to risk prosecution by buying semi and automatic weapons on the black market.

 

no one wants to take all your guns, just the ones designed for killing a lot of people fast.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Reddy

[Reddy]

That all goes to poor judgement on the mothers part... she knew her kid was troubled. She decided it was a good idea to buy guns anyway. Bad parenting there.

and there are lots of bad parents across america. how do we keep their bad decisions from killing children like this?

[caulfield12]

I know because I spend time with my family and I pay attention to them. Given people can snap.. but this kid was mentally messed up and they knew it and he needed help. If he would have gotten the help he may not have done this is all I'm saying. Just having a gun doesn't make it more likely people are going to go on rampages.. hell if he didn't have a gun, he could have made pipe bombs, molotov cocktails... what ever to do the job.

 

Other than the Oklahoma City bombing by McVeigh/Nichols and the Unabomber, etc., how many times has this happened with schools or public buildings in the US?

 

It takes a LOT more planning and sophistication than simply picking up a handgun or rifle from the gun closet or cabinet.

 

The amount of technical expertise necessary in other types of attacks 1) discourages (aforementioned attacks) because of the time required, during which the person might have cooled down emotionally/psychologically, and 2) requires more money to carry out.

 

Terrorists are more likely to use IED's or pipe bombs or fire bombs, but many times those are used to create a sense of fear and intimidation, rather than killing multitudes of people.

 

Whereas anyone can snap and find a household gun in the heat of the moment.

[EvilJester99]

and there are lots of bad parents across america. how do we keep their bad decisions from killing children like this?

You don't or can't. There is no way to stop it. Only way you can stop things like this is to be prepared.

[Reddy]

You don't or can't. There is no way to stop it. Only way you can stop things like this is to be prepared.

lol so explain to me why gun violence rates in every other civilized country is lower than in the US

[EvilJester99]

lol so explain to me why gun violence rates in every other civilized country is lower than in the US

Explain to me why every state that allows concealed carry or open carry have a much lower death rate due to guns than most other places do? This debate can go on forever. Hard fact is even with all this, they won't be able to take away the guns. Its pointless to keep going on and on.

 

Also, just because you can carry openly or concealed doesn't mean people will. Its your choice to do so.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EvilJester99

[caulfield12]

That all goes to poor judgement on the mothers part... she knew her kid was troubled. She decided it was a good idea to buy guns anyway. Bad parenting there.

 

 

He didn't live at home, did he? I thought he had roommates?

 

Do we know when she actually purchased the guns?

 

Maybe there were a series of break-ins in the neighborhood, or she could have even bought them to protect herself from her son, although that's probably not the most likely reason, as he probably wouldn't have known where they were in the first place if that were actually the case.

 

Maybe the conditions of his mental illness (what we're all concluding before knowing the facts 100%) didn't manifest themselves until well after the fact...and maybe he never once showed any propensity for violence before this time (not unusual).

 

Keep in mind, holidays/Christmas season always seems to be one of the most stressful times of the year for many, many families...especially after the 2008 financial crisis hit.

[EvilJester99]

He didn't live at home, did he? I thought he had roommates?

 

Do we know when she actually purchased the guns?

 

Maybe there were a series of break-ins in the neighborhood, or she could have even bought them to protect herself from her son, although that's probably not the most likely reason, as he probably wouldn't have known where they were in the first place if that were actually the case.

 

Maybe the conditions of his mental illness (what we're all concluding before knowing the facts 100%) didn't manifest themselves until well after the fact...and maybe he never once showed any propensity for violence before this time (not unusual).

 

Keep in mind, holidays/Christmas season always seems to be one of the most stressful times of the year for many, many families...especially after the 2008 financial crisis hit.

According to what the news has been reporting they knew he had mental issues pretty much all along. Who knows though the info has been changing. From the moment this started they said his mom was the teacher and now they are saying she was the aide now I believe. Of course this will probably keep changing. Not sure about him not living at home though.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EvilJester99

[caulfield12]

Explain to me why every state that allows concealed carry or open carry have a much lower death rate due to guns than most other places do? This debate can go on forever. Hard fact is even with all this, they won't be able to take away the guns. Its pointless to keep going on and on.

 

Also, just because you can carry openly or concealed doesn't mean people will. Its your choice to do so.

 

 

source?

 

Simple rebuttal to that is Canada, where there are many more guns per capita than the US, but the gun homicide rate is 20X lower, something like that.

 

Why is that?

 

Keep in mind, also, that very few hunters or gamesman in Canada would ever think to have a semi-automatic weapon in their possession.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[EvilJester99]

source?

 

Simple rebuttal to that is Canada, where there are many more guns per capita than the US, but the gun homicide rate is 20X lower, something like that.

 

Why is that?

 

Keep in mind, also, that very few hunters or gamesman in Canada would ever think to have a semi-automatic weapon in their possession.

Ok stating EVERY state is a bit over board. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_w...ate-per-100-000

 

Just read something interesting on that link. 57% of ALL deaths by firearms are Suicide. USGO 2010 Did not know that.

[EvilJester99]

As it goes for guns though I do agree that assault rifles and machine guns don't belong in the hands of the public. There is no practical reason for those to be available. However, you get on that slippery slope then of handing over freedoms for perceived safety. As Benjamin Franklin said "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither"

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

For me its paper targets. Or anyone who wishes to come in my house uninvited. Other than that I wouldn't shoot at anyone or anything else.

 

Would you not be able to shoot paper targets or people who wish to come in to your house uninvited with a regular pistol, or non semi-auto gun?

[EvilJester99]

Would you not be able to shoot paper targets or people who wish to come in to your house uninvited with a regular pistol, or non semi-auto gun?

Sure I can,hell that is why I have my 12ga really.. but can't take a 12ga to the firing range. I have a revolver too but with a speed loader I can fire off damn near as many as my semi auto does. However, having the clips makes it much easier to deal with my semi auto. It really doesn't matter the type of gun. It all matters on if I choose to go on a shooting spree or not. You can kill just as many people with a revolver as you can a semi auto.. and revolvers don't jam. Semi auto can jam up the more you fire it. Either gun is a bringer of death if the person using it chooses it to be.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EvilJester99

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sure I can,hell that is why I have my 12ga really.. but can't take a 12ga to the firing range. I have a revolver too but with a speed loader I can fire off damn near as many as my semi auto does. However, having the clips makes it much easier to deal with my semi auto. It really doesn't matter the type of gun. It all matters on if I choose to go on a shooting spree or not. You can kill just as many people with a revolver as you can a semi auto.. and revolvers don't jam. Semi auto can jam up the more you fire it. Either gun is a bringer of death if the person using it chooses it to be.

 

I don't think this guy would have been able to get off 100 rounds with a revolver.

[greg775]

I doubt it will ever come... many people will refuse to give up their guns. As I told a friend earlier on, they made alcohol illegal and that didn't stop anyone from getting alcohol. All it will do is bring forth the black market gun dealers and people will still get guns... it won't stop anything.

 

I was listening to Huckabee tonight on O'Reilly. Say what you want about him, he made a couple interesting points. One was that you can't stop these kind of things. As he stayed it it is an issue of the heart. His claim was that people who are evil and want to do horrific things will do them. Now admittedly this 20 year old punk killer had it easy since apparently his mom owned the guns.

 

Another question I want to ask the good people of Sox talk. We have our disagreements about Ozzie, but I respect many many people on here and want your opinion.

This killer was 20 years old, raised in the current public school system. My question to you is: Is the fact all mention of God has been removed from society, the fact kids today are raised that there is no God and God is a dirty word (you won't hear the word in public schools of course) and there is no accountability to a higher power, that the younger generation is being raised in an unhealthy way, a way that will lead to more of these situations? God-fearing people do not kill kindergartners for gosh sakes. Also, the way Johnny is raised today ... Johnny can do no wrong. Johnny is always right. Johnny gets equal playing time with all the other kids on his team; Johnny gets a trophy for finishing last. Is there something wrong with our society in the way we are raising our kids???

I know I didn't explain this well enough, maybe somebody can read what I am trying to say.

Tell me ... what is going on today?? Why these mass killings? What is the fundamental issue? Did I get it right or not?

I will tell you this, if this continues??? In 20 years we will be waiting 90 minutes to get into a church; 90 minutes to get into a movie theatre, 90 minutes to enter a hospital, it'll take 5 hours to get on a plane by the time you arrive at the airport; 90 minutes to get into the doors of a sports event. There will be so much security it will make your head spin.

 

I'm sick over this. Yes I had tears stream down my face today. When I thought about the scene in the classroom as the punk reloaded his gun, the terror on the kids who had yet to be killed. The pain thinking about the parents of those kids!!!! I'm so sad and pissed and sick over this.

[EvilJester99]

I don't think this guy would have been able to get off 100 rounds with a revolver.

Oh I also know its near impossible for a revolver to unload that many rounds. However, not knowing the clip capacity of his semi auto hand guns, I would have to assume the semi auto rifle he had which usually holds 30 rds was the majority of what he used. I know some pistols can hold up to 17 shots though. Either way this is a major tragedy but to solely blame this on the guns is bs IMO.

 

I stand corrected he didn't even use the assault rifle according to police. A federal law-enforcement official said a .223 Bushmaster rifle was found in the back of a vehicle at the scene. Two firearms were recovered near the alleged gunman's body: a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both handguns.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EvilJester99

[greg775]

Rather than be sad and depressed about the shooting in CT today, I'd rather feel proud and thankful for the teachers in that school who followed lockdown protocol, distracted the kids with games and stories, and kept away the madness outside the classroom. It's because of them hundreds or children survived and didn't have to experience the horrors surrounding them. That's what I choose to get out of this.

Amen, amen. I was telling somebody that earlier tonight as well. I want to thank those teachers for all of humanity.

 

This is awful beyond description. But so was Columbine. So was Virginia Tech. So was Aurora Colorado. So are any of these high profile rampages that take place. This has become normal now. But the non-high profile tragedies are JUST as bad. I get so sick of media-frenzied debacles being prioritized over boring street crime. s***, the thing that happened on the subway in Philly was just as senseless as what happened today. Just because the media didn't go apes*** over it doesn't make it any less horrible. Just because Obama didn't call for action (he gave almost word for word the same boring ass speech he gave after the movie tragedy) doesn't make it less important. This is the world we live in today and there ain't s*** anybody can do about it. I've accepted it. Others should as well.

 

Jordan, it is true we are now a killing nation. It is simply, so. That's truly the way it is. We are a nation of killers.

I've accepted it too and I do agree there's very little that can be done about it right now. You make an interesting point. I don't even know what else to say about your post. Thought provoking.

 

We have become a very mean, cynical nation. An anonymous nation with people spewing meanness all the time. You ever read comments after articles on the Internet? The mean virtriol (sp) spewed by people? The hate? The growing animosity of workers in the workplace? The rudeness and meanness of superiors at work to the employees? Do any of you think the country will be in a mess too big to fix in 20 years? If this continues, it's going to be a war state on a daily basis in the USA.

Edited December 15, 2012 by greg775

[RockRaines]

So I own a gun in Chicago to protect my family from others that clearly have guns, am I wrong?

[DukeNukeEm]

So I own a gun in Chicago to protect my family from others that clearly have guns, am I wrong?

Man if you DONT own a gun for home defense in Chicago you're a f***ing idiot. We are living in American Afghanistan, a city held under terror by an unstoppable onslaught of crime.

 

When can we point out that Chicago is going to break 500 homicides this year and, BY TOTAL COINCIDENCE, also has the tightest gun control in the United States? 30 is a tragedy, 500 is a war.

[RockRaines]

Man if you DONT own a gun for home defense in Chicago you're a f***ing idiot. We are living in American Afghanistan, a city held under terror by an unstoppable onslaught of crime.

 

When can we point out that Chicago is going to break 500 homicides this year and, BY TOTAL COINCIDENCE, also has the tightest gun control in the United States? 30 is a tragedy, 500 is a war.

I do, and I hope there is never a day that I have to use it. Going back to the last page, I am trained and proficient in safety and use of my weapon. You dont want to knock down my door because headshots are what I am going for.