Look at what Toronto did this winter, I could believe it.

 

 

But isn't the flip side (from the Marlins/Dodgers' records so far) a rising concern and fear that building teams by adding expensive veteran pieces... going to have more than its fair share of detractors as a philosophy going forward? Those two teams have to be in GM/manager firing modes, not to mention the Angels and Royals.

 

Or look at the Shields for Myers/Odorizzi move. Trying to add that one player to put you over the top when your team is still at least one or two years away can be a career-killer. Just can't believe that someone's going to keep giving up their top young position prospects, when all is said and done.

 

And yes, one realizes you just need ONE team to bite, one Arte Moreno or Illitch who "wants to go for it all," but it just doesn't seem like the type of move the St. Louis Cardinals or really smart organizations (Giants, for example) would make.

 

 

But isn't the flip side (from the Marlins/Dodgers' records so far) a rising concern and fear that building teams by adding expensive veteran pieces... going to have more than its fair share of detractors as a philosophy going forward? Those two teams have to be in GM/manager firing modes, not to mention the Angels and Royals.

 

Or look at the Shields for Myers/Odorizzi move. Trying to add that one player to put you over the top when your team is still at least one or two years away can be a career-killer. Just can't believe that someone's going to keep giving up their top young position prospects, when all is said and done.

 

And yes, one realizes you just need ONE team to bite, one Arte Moreno or Illitch who "wants to go for it all," but it just doesn't seem like the type of move the St. Louis Cardinals or really smart organizations (Giants, for example) would make.

 

There are other teams out there that would love to have Alexei. The Yankees and Red Sox would be good starting points.

If the Sox traded Ramirez, who would play SS, not just this season, but moving forward? It is one of the most vital positions on the field.

If the Sox traded Ramirez, who would play SS, not just this season, but moving forward? It is one of the most vital positions on the field.

 

The only way Alexei gets traded is if this team melts down.

In what has becoming a pitching heavy league, having a shortstop who plays very good defense and hits for a relatively high average is incredibly valuable.

 

Perhaps "lining up" was the wrong phrase to use, but Alexei would undoubtedly have value on the open market.

There are other teams out there that would love to have Alexei. The Yankees and Red Sox would be good starting points.

 

Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores?

 

Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact?

The only way Alexei gets traded is if this team melts down.

 

Totally. Part of the problem is that many of us are still blinded by steroid-era SS syndrome. We have arguably the best defensive SS right now and he's locked up cheap. That's all that should matter. Miguel Tejada took roids.

Totally. Part of the problem is that many of us are still blinded by steroid-era SS syndrome. We have arguably the best defensive SS right now and he's locked up cheap. That's all that should matter. Miguel Tejada took roids.

 

At the rate he's going, he's going to end up with 30+ errors.

 

He's still very good, but that's Jose Valentin territory in 2000.

 

And I have no doubt he'll be in the high 20's in error totals, at least, if they continue to play him everyday without resting him occasionally.

If the Sox are so worried about Phegley handling the pitchers just have the guy DH over bum Dunn. And catch sometimes to get him accumulated with the pitchers. I am sure there is a way we can have him play 4 or 5 games a week with catching once or twice.

If the Sox are so worried about Phegley handling the pitchers just have the guy DH over bum Dunn. And catch sometimes to get him accumulated with the pitchers. I am sure there is a way we can have him play 4 or 5 games a week with catching once or twice.

 

 

This is back to the Lillibridge vs. Dunn 2011 argument, all over again.

 

I don't think anyone in the front office is ready to go there, YET.

 

As with Dunn's entire White Sox career over the last two seasons, he's likely to feast on some pretty average pitching in the next month...the weather will be heating up in June, some of those warning track balls or robbed homers (Hicks in MN) will be going out and he'll be looking like the first half 2012 Dunn (for a couple of weeks) and everyone will be forgetting Josh Phegley was mentioned as a possible DH candidate.

 

That said, we do need a reliable RH bat to use against LHP. If they brought in a better catcher, Flowers could take those Dunn AB's against LHPer's, but I don't see the Sox doing that, either. They seem wedded to the notion of playing Dunn nearly everyday for now, and keeping him in the middle of that line-up card.

 

 

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by caulfield12

Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores?

 

Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact?

Here you go taking both sides. The Sox have to trade these guys, but when is the last time any of these prospects actually was worth it?

 

You keep mentioning the "Cardinals model", the "Tigers model", the "Rays model", yet the model that most closely resembles what the rebuilders here want to do is the Mariners model. The Mariners have been selecting dud minor league hitters for years. Remember Jeremy Reed. Smoak and Montero continue the tradition.

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by Dick Allen

Here you go taking both sides. The Sox have to trade these guys, but when is the last time any of these prospects actually was worth it?

 

You keep mentioning the "Cardinals model", the "Tigers model", the "Rays model", yet the model that most closely resembles what the rebuilders here want to do is the Mariners model. The Mariners have been selecting dud minor league hitters for years. Remember Jeremy Reed. Smoak and Montero continue the tradition.

One of the ESPN bloggers had a good "Man the Mariners suck at developing hitters" article last night.

One of the ESPN bloggers had a good "Man the Mariners suck at developing hitters" article last night.

Seems very familiar. For Pineda, Garcia and Lee, the return was less than stellar. Just think, however, if the Sox traded Peavy, Rios and Ramirez and got back the equivalent of Smoak, Montero, Reed, Morse and Olivo when they were acquired by the Mariners. The re-build would be declared complete, and the team might lose 100 games for a while.

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by Dick Allen

Here you go taking both sides. The Sox have to trade these guys, but when is the last time any of these prospects actually was worth it?

 

You keep mentioning the "Cardinals model", the "Tigers model", the "Rays model", yet the model that most closely resembles what the rebuilders here want to do is the Mariners model. The Mariners have been selecting dud minor league hitters for years. Remember Jeremy Reed. Smoak and Montero continue the tradition.

 

 

You're forgetting Ackley.

 

Although Seager hasn't been too bad. But he's not the kind of hitter you build your team around.

 

 

And it goes back and forth, lol.

 

If we do rebuild, we cannot fall into any other set of results other than the Astros or Mariners?

 

If you look at how badly most of KW's moves have been ever since the Viciedo signing, and we're still a .500 team, you'd have to think we would be due for a change in "luck" at some point, right?

 

And nobody that knew his limitations was all that high on Jeremy Reed...he was the equivalent of a Duke basketball player who looked great on paper but didn't have the raw tools and physical ability to translate that into results at the highest level. It's one of the reasons the White Sox have steered away from limited potential/collegiate outfielders for most of the past decade.

 

Borchard, Mitchell and even Fields all fell into the unrefined athlete/toolsy/multi-sport star model.

 

For every example from the Astros or Mariners, there's ones like Colon for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips. (This is where 15 people will jump in and argue those kinds of trades with 2-3 Top 100 prospects going back and forth just don't happen in this day and age of baseball.)

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by caulfield12

Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores?

 

Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact?

 

I have no idea who any of those guys are honestly. Really I could care less about other teams farm systems unless we get to the point where it actually means something to the Sox.

Austin Jackson was developed by the Tigers

Austin Jackson was developed by the Tigers

 

I don't think there's any way you can say that. He was the #41 (2008) #36 (2009), and #76 (2010) prospect in the minors while a member of the Yankees organization. That's similar to saying that Conor Gillaspie has been developed by the White Sox.

Austin Jackson was developed by the Tigers

 

The Tigers traded for him on December 8, 2009. On April 5, 2010 he was already their everyday center fielder. That's quite the development in 5 months!

If the Sox traded Ramirez, who would play SS, not just this season, but moving forward? It is one of the most vital positions on the field.

 

According to the brilliant Marty that player's name is I Don't Care.

 

According to the brilliant Marty that player's name is I Don't Care.

Costello: Why? I don't know. And I don't care.

 

Abbott: What was that?

 

Costello: I said, I DON'T CARE!

 

Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop!

According to the brilliant Marty that player's name is I Don't Care.

I Don't Care won't be part of the White Sox next playoff team.

Hi I'm new to the board. Tyler Flowers is looking really bad, I think the biggest problem I have with the sox organization is their unwillingness to make drastic changes midseason. There is no way Dunn should be batting fourth, and demote Flowers he has been horrible call up Phegley! GO SOX

According to the brilliant Marty that player's name is I Don't Care.

 

Here's the thing and I've been pretty tame with this. Posters like you who focus on one position either are fooling themselves about the depth of changes needed with this team or have no idea about the talent-level required for a championship team.

Costello: Why? I don't know. And I don't care.

 

Abbott: What was that?

 

Costello: I said, I DON'T CARE!

 

Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop!

 

 

Put that in a letter to KW.

Hi I'm new to the board. Tyler Flowers is looking really bad, I think the biggest problem I have with the sox organization is their unwillingness to make drastic changes midseason. There is no way Dunn should be batting fourth, and demote Flowers he has been horrible call up Phegley! GO SOX

Welcome aboard!

 

As you read through the thread, you will see that there are reasons for being patient here. And also realize that Phegley is not likely to come up and hit the world right away either.