You're bias is clouding you're judgement. Santiago is 4/5 starter on a good team. He has good, not great stuff, marginal control, and has never shown the ability to get into the 7th inning on a regular basis. He'll keep you in the game for 6 innings, which is definitely a good thing and he is a valuable member of a team. But he's just not a premium talent, he kinda is what he is. His trade value really isn't as high as you think it is.

 

I love when posters adamantly claim to know the specific value of a player.

You're bias is clouding you're judgement. Santiago is 4/5 starter on a good team. He has good, not great stuff, marginal control, and has never shown the ability to get into the 7th inning on a regular basis. He'll keep you in the game for 6 innings, which is definitely a good thing and he is a valuable member of a team. But he's just not a premium talent, he kinda is what he is. His trade value really isn't as high as you think it is.

If his trade value isn't that of a really solid young starter then we'd be stupid to move him.

I love when posters adamantly claim to know the specific value of a player.

 

And I love when hometown fans overvalue every player on their favorite team. Its only been a few days since I joined this site, but already I've learned.....

- Viciedo and Beckham are good players who are just slumping. They'll be better next year.

- Alexei Ramirez is a very good player who should only be traded for a top prospect. He's too valuable for anything less.

- Hector Santiago is legit frontline starter and possibly even a #2.

- Chris Beck is a top prospect with a bright future.

And I love when hometown fans overvalue every player on their favorite team. Its only been a few days since I joined this site, but already I've learned.....

- Viciedo and Beckham are good players who are just slumping. They'll be better next year.

- Alexei Ramirez is a very good player who should only be traded for a top prospect. He's too valuable for anything less.

- Hector Santiago is legit frontline starter and possibly even a #2.

- Chris Beck is a top prospect with a bright future.

I don't know about Beckham but I agree 100% with the rest of those. Maybe it's hope with Viciedo...but damn he's so talented he just seems like he has to find it at some point.

There might be 3 posters on the entire board that think Beckham is a good player.

I can't see any way anyone ever considers Santiago a #2 starter. That doesn't mean I think he has no value, but let's be realistic, he's a 3/4. It's fine to say you still think he has upside, but it isn't like his stuff is overwhelming and he just needs to learn to harness it.

I can't see any way anyone ever considers Santiago a #2 starter. That doesn't mean I think he has no value, but let's be realistic, he's a 3/4. It's fine to say you still think he has upside, but it isn't like his stuff is overwhelming and he just needs to learn to harness it.

You don't need overwhelming stuff to be a very good number 2 starter, especially if you're left handed.

I can't see any way anyone ever considers Santiago a #2 starter. That doesn't mean I think he has no value, but let's be realistic, he's a 3/4. It's fine to say you still think he has upside, but it isn't like his stuff is overwhelming and he just needs to learn to harness it.

Until the latter half of 2013, his fastball was comparable to Chris Sale. He doesn't top out as high but he also is more consistently in the low 90's.

You're bias is clouding you're judgement. Santiago is 4/5 starter on a good team. He has good, not great stuff, marginal control, and has never shown the ability to get into the 7th inning on a regular basis. He'll keep you in the game for 6 innings, which is definitely a good thing and he is a valuable member of a team. But he's just not a premium talent, he kinda is what he is. His trade value really isn't as high as you think it is.

 

I agree fully on Santiago.

Q is a different story. I think Q is pretty good. Whether he can take the next step, who knows?

I agree fully on Santiago.

Q is a different story. I think Q is pretty good. Whether he can take the next step, who knows?

 

Yeah I think Q has already cemented himself as a legit #3 starter and should be a staple to our rotation for a while.

For comparisons sake Q had a 1.35 WHIP his first year as a starter, Santiago who got jerked around a lot had a 1.39 WHIP as a starter. Q in his 2nd year got down to a more respectable 1.22.

 

 

And I love when hometown fans overvalue every player on their favorite team. Its only been a few days since I joined this site, but already I've learned.....

- Viciedo and Beckham are good players who are just slumping. They'll be better next year.

- Alexei Ramirez is a very good player who should only be traded for a top prospect. He's too valuable for anything less.

- Hector Santiago is legit frontline starter and possibly even a #2.

- Chris Beck is a top prospect with a bright future.

I think you need to take off your hyperbole goggles bro

I agree fully on Santiago.

Q is a different story. I think Q is pretty good. Whether he can take the next step, who knows?

You're agreeing that bias is clouding somebody's judgement?

Yeah I think Q has already cemented himself as a legit #3 starter and should be a staple to our rotation for a while.

Jose Quintana had a 3.51 ERA last year, threw 200 innings, had the #42 ERA in the big leagues and the #17 ERA in the AL. #16 in ERA in the AL was Justin Verlander (who has an easier ballpark to pitch in), #18 was John Lackey. Last year he was an above-average #2 starter.

Jose Quintana had a 3.51 ERA last year, threw 200 innings, had the #42 ERA in the big leagues and the #17 ERA in the AL. #16 in ERA in the AL was Justin Verlander (who has an easier ballpark to pitch in), #18 was John Lackey. Last year he was an above-average #2 starter.

 

While we're talking ERA....Guess what Hectors ERA as a starter was????

 

 

3.51

While we're talking ERA....Guess what Hectors ERA as a starter was????

 

 

3.51

 

 

 

I didn't check recently, but he was in the Top 5-10 in the majors for K's/9 as well for the majority of the season before running out of gas down the stretch.

 

Of course, his detractors will say all those k's led to elevated pitch counts and the bullpen constantly being summoned in the 5th or 6th inning of his starts.

And I love when hometown fans overvalue every player on their favorite team. Its only been a few days since I joined this site, but already I've learned.....

- Viciedo and Beckham are good players who are just slumping. They'll be better next year.

- Alexei Ramirez is a very good player who should only be traded for a top prospect. He's too valuable for anything less.

- Hector Santiago is legit frontline starter and possibly even a #2.

- Chris Beck is a top prospect with a bright future.

 

 

Then you are ignoring the right posts. There is a lot of crap spewed on this site just like any similar team site on the internet. But everyone here wants the same thing. I am pretty sure we all want to see sustained success from our favorite baseball team. Most people are down on Beckham and Viciedo. I wouldn't trade Viciedo for a bag of balls but I don't think he's been used properly either. Beckham OTOH, I think gets dealt this offseason. Alexei Ramirez is a really good defensive SS who is overpaid for what he brings offensively. Would not be shocked to see him gone as well. Santiago is not a frontline starter. He has fantastic stuff and needs to not walk as many people. But he should not be traded unless the Sox get value in return. Even if he is a #4 starter, young, cost-controlled LHP is very valuable. And finally, Chris Beck isn't a top 100 guy but at one time he was a potential 1st round draft choice. He had a good season last year and I expect him to build on that.

While we're talking ERA....Guess what Hectors ERA as a starter was????

 

 

3.51

That's why I threw in the innings. Hector couldn't get there yet...because of how he was moved back and forth. He might well be there next year, we'll see.

 

(And of course, if we're talking ERA, let's also remember how many of those earned runs were given up by terrible defense that didn't get labeled as an error).

Jose Quintana had a 3.51 ERA last year, threw 200 innings, had the #42 ERA in the big leagues and the #17 ERA in the AL. #16 in ERA in the AL was Justin Verlander (who has an easier ballpark to pitch in), #18 was John Lackey. Last year he was an above-average #2 starter.

I should also add...Quintana was 6th in the AL in bWAR. (Sale of course was 2nd).

Then you are ignoring the right posts. There is a lot of crap spewed on this site just like any similar team site on the internet. But everyone here wants the same thing. I am pretty sure we all want to see sustained success from our favorite baseball team. Most people are down on Beckham and Viciedo. I wouldn't trade Viciedo for a bag of balls but I don't think he's been used properly either. Beckham OTOH, I think gets dealt this offseason. Alexei Ramirez is a really good defensive SS who is overpaid for what he brings offensively. Would not be shocked to see him gone as well. Santiago is not a frontline starter. He has fantastic stuff and needs to not walk as many people. But he should not be traded unless the Sox get value in return. Even if he is a #4 starter, young, cost-controlled LHP is very valuable. And finally, Chris Beck isn't a top 100 guy but at one time he was a potential 1st round draft choice. He had a good season last year and I expect him to build on that.

 

TheFutureisNOTnear cracks me up.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/sort/strikeoutsPerNineInnings/type/expanded-2

 

Despite fading, Santiago is barely outside the Top 20 for all the majors in this statistic. Looks like a TON of #1 starters on that list to me.

 

All the Cubs' fans rave about Rizzo as if he's a demigod/Thor/Ryan Gosling rolled into one, and yet Viciedo has better overall numbers despite 1/3rd the hype (or overhype).

 

 

Finally, Beck was viewed by nearly every scout as a Top 5-10 first round draft pick at Georgia Southern before he bulked up. He's gone through major body and mechanical changes in the last two years and is finally starting to gain confidence again and come into his own, putting up more impressive K numbers and fine-tuning his delivery.

I don't worry about Santiago's pitch counts. He needs to get a better feeling for pitching and know when to attack hitters and when to pitch to contact. It's all part of the learning process. If he doesn't, he racks up high pitch counts for a different team.

I don't worry about Santiago's pitch counts. He needs to get a better feeling for pitching and know when to attack hitters and when to pitch to contact. It's all part of the learning process. If he doesn't, he racks up high pitch counts for a different team.

 

Yeah he really pitches like a reliever.

 

He also gets in a lot of trouble when his command eludes him and he starts walking 2-3 guys in a row.

 

Hector's got what it takes to be a great starting pitcher, but he's too volatile ATM.