ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 11, 2014 -> 07:55 PM) Really like Bears signing UFA linebacker Christian Jones. Had a 3rd round grade and could be a starter sooner than later. FSU bias possibly, but I always thought he was an NFL player while watching him in college. I was shocked he went undrafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Can't believe the Bills draft caught as much flak as it did on here. #1) Watkins was absolutely the best talent at wideout in the draft. He's fast, strong, quick, a great route runner, and there are really no questions about off-field issues or injury history. I've seen comparisons to Dez Bryant, AJ Green, and Demaryius Thomas, though the last one seems more as a route runner and performer than his height. The most comparable talent to Watkins is Beckham, and he's inferior at all aspects. #2) Stevie Johnson was traded because he's constantly hurt, didn't fit the Bills new offense, still had some value, and admitted to not giving 100% effort all year, including not lifting the previous offseason. I've always loved Stevie, especially as a route runner, but he's not an elite talent and so much of his value was his creativity in a spread, pass first offense with Fitzmagic at QB. #3) I have no problem with them giving up the 1st round pick next year. If the team is as close as they think they are, then it's going to be a mid to late 1st anyways. If it's not and they start to fall apart, then it was never going to matter in the first place and they'll start another rebuilding process in relatively short order. The Bills were pretty competitive in every game they played last year with the possible exception of the Saints and Bucs games and the difference, a lot of the time, was the lack of talent among the receivers and offense in general. Manuel has a full season to practice with these guys and has had a full year to study the playbook, he gets to work with his new and holdover receivers, and he has an upgraded offensive line. Frankly, it's all on him now, but the Bills have done everything in their power to address both sides of the ball this offseason. Beyond that, they did a lot in the draft in conjunction with what they did in the offseason too. They have running back depth like crazy now with Brown and Dixon behind Spiller/Jackson, they filled a lot of their holes defensively and worked at patching up their offense in the draft. The two biggest holes that they seemingly could have looked at were safety (where it appears Corey Graham will play, though it seems he'll move around) and DE (where it could be that Jerry Hughes and Manny Lawson end up playing similar to the Leo backer in Seattle anyways). I love the Bills draft. I'd be OK with an 8-8 season, but I honestly expect them to win 10 games this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 10, 2014 -> 08:21 PM) Obvious Mizzou bias here, but yes. He's undersized but has some real damn broad shoulders and a Joakim Noah motor. He was a projected 2nd/3rd rounder when the season ended, plummeted when he came out. I mean, unanimous All-American and SEC Defensive Player of the Year mean nothing to the NFL...but he played really f***ing good last year. I forgot Kroenke owns the Rams. He lives in Columbia and has Mizzou ties, so it makes sense that they'd take the chance. By plummeted when he came out, you mean, plumetted after the combine and pro day as that is really what dropped his stock or at least by and large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 ChiTribSports @ChiTribSports 12m Report: Browns owner insisted on Manziel http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...story?track=rss … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well, he did just sell 1,500 more season tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 12, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) Well, he did just sell 1,500 more season tickets. I think I found the solution to the White Sox attendance problems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 11, 2014 -> 05:55 PM) Really like Bears signing UFA linebacker Christian Jones. Had a 3rd round grade and could be a starter sooner than later. I fully expect him to make the 53 man roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (dasox24 @ May 12, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) I fully expect him to make the 53 man roster. He looks so good in pass coverage, I am anxious to see how good he is on the field right now. I feel like he's someone who will have to make 53 man because I wonder if he would be able to pass through waivers to get to practice squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 12, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) Can't believe the Bills draft caught as much flak as it did on here. #1) Watkins was absolutely the best talent at wideout in the draft. He's fast, strong, quick, a great route runner, and there are really no questions about off-field issues or injury history. I've seen comparisons to Dez Bryant, AJ Green, and Demaryius Thomas, though the last one seems more as a route runner and performer than his height. The most comparable talent to Watkins is Beckham, and he's inferior at all aspects. #2) Stevie Johnson was traded because he's constantly hurt, didn't fit the Bills new offense, still had some value, and admitted to not giving 100% effort all year, including not lifting the previous offseason. I've always loved Stevie, especially as a route runner, but he's not an elite talent and so much of his value was his creativity in a spread, pass first offense with Fitzmagic at QB. #3) I have no problem with them giving up the 1st round pick next year. If the team is as close as they think they are, then it's going to be a mid to late 1st anyways. If it's not and they start to fall apart, then it was never going to matter in the first place and they'll start another rebuilding process in relatively short order. The Bills were pretty competitive in every game they played last year with the possible exception of the Saints and Bucs games and the difference, a lot of the time, was the lack of talent among the receivers and offense in general. Manuel has a full season to practice with these guys and has had a full year to study the playbook, he gets to work with his new and holdover receivers, and he has an upgraded offensive line. Frankly, it's all on him now, but the Bills have done everything in their power to address both sides of the ball this offseason. Beyond that, they did a lot in the draft in conjunction with what they did in the offseason too. They have running back depth like crazy now with Brown and Dixon behind Spiller/Jackson, they filled a lot of their holes defensively and worked at patching up their offense in the draft. The two biggest holes that they seemingly could have looked at were safety (where it appears Corey Graham will play, though it seems he'll move around) and DE (where it could be that Jerry Hughes and Manny Lawson end up playing similar to the Leo backer in Seattle anyways). I love the Bills draft. I'd be OK with an 8-8 season, but I honestly expect them to win 10 games this year. Only time will tell, but I don't think they are one player away from being a great team. They won 6 games last year in an awful division. I would be surprised if they even won 8 games next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 12, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) Can't believe the Bills draft caught as much flak as it did on here. #1) Watkins was absolutely the best talent at wideout in the draft. He's fast, strong, quick, a great route runner, and there are really no questions about off-field issues or injury history. I've seen comparisons to Dez Bryant, AJ Green, and Demaryius Thomas, though the last one seems more as a route runner and performer than his height. The most comparable talent to Watkins is Beckham, and he's inferior at all aspects. #2) Stevie Johnson was traded because he's constantly hurt, didn't fit the Bills new offense, still had some value, and admitted to not giving 100% effort all year, including not lifting the previous offseason. I've always loved Stevie, especially as a route runner, but he's not an elite talent and so much of his value was his creativity in a spread, pass first offense with Fitzmagic at QB. #3) I have no problem with them giving up the 1st round pick next year. If the team is as close as they think they are, then it's going to be a mid to late 1st anyways. If it's not and they start to fall apart, then it was never going to matter in the first place and they'll start another rebuilding process in relatively short order. The Bills were pretty competitive in every game they played last year with the possible exception of the Saints and Bucs games and the difference, a lot of the time, was the lack of talent among the receivers and offense in general. Manuel has a full season to practice with these guys and has had a full year to study the playbook, he gets to work with his new and holdover receivers, and he has an upgraded offensive line. Frankly, it's all on him now, but the Bills have done everything in their power to address both sides of the ball this offseason. Beyond that, they did a lot in the draft in conjunction with what they did in the offseason too. They have running back depth like crazy now with Brown and Dixon behind Spiller/Jackson, they filled a lot of their holes defensively and worked at patching up their offense in the draft. The two biggest holes that they seemingly could have looked at were safety (where it appears Corey Graham will play, though it seems he'll move around) and DE (where it could be that Jerry Hughes and Manny Lawson end up playing similar to the Leo backer in Seattle anyways). I love the Bills draft. I'd be OK with an 8-8 season, but I honestly expect them to win 10 games this year. I did my best to defend them. I think Bills are heading in the right direction finally. 9-7 record is what I expect this year. Edited May 12, 2014 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 12, 2014 -> 11:10 AM) Only time will tell, but I don't think they are one player away from being a great team. They won 6 games last year in an awful division. I would be surprised if they even won 8 games next year. They won 6 games, but they were within a score of winning 4 others and played very competitively in 3 others and that was with a new head coach, rookie QBs (or essentially rookie QBs in Thad Lewis's case), and young talent all around. Frankly, I think with Thad or EJ playing in the games against KC and Cleveland (instead of EJ getting hurt in the 3Q), they win 8 games last year. There are weaknesses, like with every team, but I think the Bills have a pretty rock solid foundation all around. I'm obviously biased, but the team is absolutely loaded with talent. Their need for a true #1 WR could have very well been their biggest need and they weren't getting that had they stuck at 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 12, 2014 -> 09:10 AM) Only time will tell, but I don't think they are one player away from being a great team. They won 6 games last year in an awful division. I would be surprised if they even won 8 games next year. I feel the exact opposite of Wite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) I feel the exact opposite of Wite. We'll see. It's a winnable division and a weak conference, but they do play the AFC West which is suddenly looking like the best division in the conference and they could end up struggling to win 2 games against them. They could also win 3 games too as they've handled the Chiefs well (again, a minimum 10 point swing in the game last year when the 3rd string QB Jeff Tuel threw a pick 6 on the Chiefs 1 or 2 yard line, and they'd won 5 of the previous 6 matchups). I wanted one more pass rusher, but the pass rush wasn't a problem last year with 3 guys getting 10 sacks (though in a hybrid defense) and they'll still get good pressure from the front 4. The biggest problem was stopping the run and adding Spikes and Alonso (along with Preston Brown in the 3rd backing up Spikes) should help stabilize that. There will be differing opinions, but I honestly couldn't be happier with the Bills draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 McShay calls Vereen the best pick of any team in the NFC North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 12, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) I did my best to defend them. I think Bills are heading in the right direction finally. 9-7 record is what I expect this year. Plus they got Kenny Guiton, the best QB in the Big Ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I'm gonna side with wite sort of. Always tough to lose a 1st rounder, and receivers are never sure things. However, if Watkins is as dynamic as some think, nobody will ever claim to hold the opinion "but they had Stevie Johnson and had to trade up!". Those players are game changers and if they think he is one you do what you do to get em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 12, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) I'm gonna side with wite sort of. Always tough to lose a 1st rounder, and receivers are never sure things. However, if Watkins is as dynamic as some think, nobody will ever claim to hold the opinion "but they had Stevie Johnson and had to trade up!". Those players are game changers and if they think he is one you do what you do to get em. In general, trading up is a bad idea, trading up for a wideout, especially one who I personally dont' think projects near as good as some of the other elite ones, that just doesn't make sense, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2014 -> 06:49 PM) In general, trading up is a bad idea, trading up for a wideout, especially one who I personally dont' think projects near as good as some of the other elite ones, that just doesn't make sense, imo. He's got to basically be Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones for this to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) In general, trading up is a bad idea, trading up for a wideout, especially one who I personally dont' think projects near as good as some of the other elite ones, that just doesn't make sense, imo. What other elite ones? Sammy is/was in a class of his own. I think Sammy's the best receiver to come out since AJ Green, but most others think that too. You won't see people making those comparisons for Beckham or Evans or anyone else in the draft, and if you take one later - several of whom I did like a lot - you better be damn sure those guys are #1 receivers, otherwise you're just adding depth. This is a move made for now and later. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) He's got to basically be Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones for this to work. Or Dez Bryant or AJ Green or Eric Moulds or Terrell Owens. Anywhere in that range, or in between, or better, or slightly worse. He just can't bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Should signings go in NFL thread or this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) In general, trading up is a bad idea, trading up for a wideout, especially one who I personally dont' think projects near as good as some of the other elite ones, that just doesn't make sense, imo. I think he can be of that class of WR's. He's unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Chicago Bears Nation 1 hr · The Bears agree to terms on 4 year deals with 2 draft picks: 4th-round pick S Brock Vereen & 6th-round pick QB David Fales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 13, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) What other elite ones? Sammy is/was in a class of his own. I think Sammy's the best receiver to come out since AJ Green, but most others think that too. You won't see people making those comparisons for Beckham or Evans or anyone else in the draft, and if you take one later - several of whom I did like a lot - you better be damn sure those guys are #1 receivers, otherwise you're just adding depth. This is a move made for now and later. Or Dez Bryant or AJ Green or Eric Moulds or Terrell Owens. Anywhere in that range, or in between, or better, or slightly worse. He just can't bust. 2 first round picks for an Eric Moulds would disappoint a bit. Dez Bryant that's becoming fair, but Dez also has taken a while to develop, so that's a potential major issue if this guy doesn't come out and light the world on fire this year. If he becomes Dez Bryant and like Dez it takes until his 3rd year for him to become a really top flight WR, that's a decent pick but man, two first rounders for that player is still steep. Moulds didn't get to 90 catches until his 5th season, Bryant his 3rd, Owens his 5th. They contributed beforehand but it took most of the guuys you listed several seasons to become really top flight WR's. AJ Green was the only one you listed who lit the league on fire as a rookie, which is what the Bills appear to be counting on in the justifications you're giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Another reason I'm not big on the Watkins trade is that it's proven you can get really good WR in later rounds. Just look at some of the best WR in football. A lot of them were taken in 2nd and later rounds. Brandon Marshall Alshon Jeffery Jordy Nelson James Jones Greg Jennings Pierre Garcon TY Hilton Eric Decker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) Another reason I'm not big on the Watkins trade is that it's proven you can get really good WR in later rounds. Just look at some of the best WR in football. A lot of them were taken in 2nd and later rounds. Brandon Marshall Alshon Jeffery Jordy Nelson James Jones Greg Jennings Pierre Garcon TY Hilton Eric Decker Few of these are true #1s. Most of those are product of good passing system which arguable if Bills have. Of best WRs regardless in football, I can't think of one that isn't a #1 pick: Megatron AJ Green Andre Johnson Larry Fitz Julio Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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