Not really. I endorsed the Santiago trade when it happened. He cetainly hit for a high average in most of his minor league career. He hustles. I said about a week or so ago that he was one bad week away from hitting .240. Here he is. He seems to be struggling. A few weaknesses, so-so arm for sure. Baserunning is iffy...I have seen several instances where he just doesn't get that good jump that superior baserunners have. He probably needs a jolt of confidence. Still improving, hopefully. I just think CF is not a position of strength right now. We have a slug playing left, and Eaton certainly can't make up for that deficit. If Avisail had never gotten hurt, he would help cover up Eaton's weaknesses; that is, he would fit in better. But our outfield is so bad right now with no help in sight, I made that comment about trading Gordo for a CF type a bit impulsively. I meant it, but have not given up on him.

 

Avisail make up for weaknesses of the centerfielder? I thought A. Garcia was a disaster defensively. Is Eaton Aaron Rowand clone? About a .240 hitter who has intangibles?

Avisail make up for weaknesses of the centerfielder? I thought A. Garcia was a disaster defensively. Is Eaton Aaron Rowand clone? About a .240 hitter who has intangibles?

Avi has good speed but should also be regarded as extremely raw/inexperienced on defense. He has the tools to be a plus defender but he needs a lot of experience and coaching before he ever pulls that off. That is one big reason why him losing this entire season is such a downer.

Avi has good speed but should also be regarded as extremely raw/inexperienced on defense. He has the tools to be a plus defender but he needs a lot of experience and coaching before he ever pulls that off. That is one big reason why him losing this entire season is such a downer.

Why should he be considered raw/inexperienced on defense? He's been playing baseball all his life. There are plenty of players who have played even fewer games than he has who fared far better defensively.

Why should he be considered raw/inexperienced on defense? He's been playing baseball all his life. There are plenty of players who have played even fewer games than he has who fared far better defensively.

 

Yeah, this is how I feel.

 

I mean, he can definitely get better (and probably will), but where he currently is just isn't really acceptable for a Major League baseball player.

Avi has the tools to be a plus outfielder but his instincts are atrocious. He'll never be more than average at best.

Why should he be considered raw/inexperienced on defense? He's been playing baseball all his life. There are plenty of players who have played even fewer games than he has who fared far better defensively.

Jose Abreu is my response. Specifically, for the first couple weeks of the season, Abreu's footwork at 1b was on the verge of getting his ankle broken every time he received a throw. IIRC it led to an error/run scoring in Colorado or something like that. Jose Abreu is 26 and has been playing 1b longer than Garcia has played by several years, but in all that time, no one had ever coached him how to correctly plant his feet while taking throws at 1b. After that error, suddenly the next couple days he was doing it correctly. He got coaching and suddenly improved.

 

That's a great example of a raw player who has played baseball all his life and still makes simple mistakes.

Jose Abreu is my response. Specifically, for the first couple weeks of the season, Abreu's footwork at 1b was on the verge of getting his ankle broken every time he received a throw. IIRC it led to an error/run scoring in Colorado or something like that. Jose Abreu is 26 and has been playing 1b longer than Garcia has played by several years, but in all that time, no one had ever coached him how to correctly plant his feet while taking throws at 1b. After that error, suddenly the next couple days he was doing it correctly. He got coaching and suddenly improved.

 

That's a great example of a raw player who has played baseball all his life and still makes simple mistakes.

That's a mighty stretch.

Avi has the tools to be a plus outfielder but his instincts are atrocious. He'll never be more than average at best.

This is how I feel. I don't know of any coach who can really improve what Avi lacks. He does have tools which can make him average, but like you said, his instincts are so bad, average is about what we can reasonably hope for.

That's a mighty stretch.

 

Yeah, sorry Balta. But there's a huge difference between some footwork mixups at first and a complete inability to read the ball off the bat or run to it in a straight line. Plus, Avi has been in the Tigers/White Sox systems since 2007.

Jose Abreu is my response. Specifically, for the first couple weeks of the season, Abreu's footwork at 1b was on the verge of getting his ankle broken every time he received a throw. IIRC it led to an error/run scoring in Colorado or something like that. Jose Abreu is 26 and has been playing 1b longer than Garcia has played by several years, but in all that time, no one had ever coached him how to correctly plant his feet while taking throws at 1b. After that error, suddenly the next couple days he was doing it correctly. He got coaching and suddenly improved.

 

That's a great example of a raw player who has played baseball all his life and still makes simple mistakes.

 

 

Coaching makes a big difference sometimes. That's why in general you want guys that are athletic and have tools because those are the things you can't teach, right? If bet Avi is going to work his ass off this offseason to improve in RF and he'll have MLB quality coaching helping him along.

Jose Abreu is my response. Specifically, for the first couple weeks of the season, Abreu's footwork at 1b was on the verge of getting his ankle broken every time he received a throw. IIRC it led to an error/run scoring in Colorado or something like that. Jose Abreu is 26 and has been playing 1b longer than Garcia has played by several years, but in all that time, no one had ever coached him how to correctly plant his feet while taking throws at 1b. After that error, suddenly the next couple days he was doing it correctly. He got coaching and suddenly improved.

 

That's a great example of a raw player who has played baseball all his life and still makes simple mistakes.

And how is a coach going to help Avi get a better jump, or judge balls off the bat? Footwork at 1B and what Avi struggles with in the OF are quite different.

Coaching makes a big difference sometimes. That's why in general you want guys that are athletic and have tools because those are the things you can't teach, right? If bet Avi is going to work his ass off this offseason to improve in RF and he'll have MLB quality coaching helping him along.

Based on Garcia's form at "diving for balls", I think there's clearly some room for improvement with coaching. It's also worth stressing that experience is a key thing as well in terms of reading fly balls off the bat, and that is a skill that could well improve with coaching/experience.

Based on Garcia's form at "diving for balls", I think there's clearly some room for improvement with coaching. It's also worth stressing that experience is a key thing as well in terms of reading fly balls off the bat, and that is a skill that could well improve with coaching/experience.

Reading balls of the bat and getting good jumps is much more instinct than coaching.

Reading balls of the bat and getting good jumps is much more instinct than coaching.

 

It is also a lot of repetitions.

It is also a lot of repetitions.

Getting good jumps? No, not really.

It is also a lot of repetitions.

 

Which he's presumably been getting in an MLB player development environment for at least seven years.

Avisail make up for weaknesses of the centerfielder? I thought A. Garcia was a disaster defensively. Is Eaton Aaron Rowand clone? About a .240 hitter who has intangibles?

I meant offensively. IOW, if Avisail is in the middle of the lineup with Abreu, and they are both getting on base and hitting extra base hits all over the place, there is a place for Eaton at the top. Avisail getting hurt makes Eaton less of a factor offensively.

Getting good jumps? No, not really.

 

Getting good jumps is all about getting good reads. Getting good reads is recognizing the ball off of the bat, which is absolutely able to be helped by reps.

Getting good jumps is all about getting good reads. Getting good reads is recognizing the ball off of the bat, which is absolutely able to be helped by reps.

Getting good jumps is done with the ears, not the eyes. It's done in about .5 seconds and is almost completely instinctual. You read the ball after you get your jump. A guy can be taught to get better reads and position himself better, but not to get better jumps.

Getting more reps hasn't helped Alejandro De Aza.

Getting more reps hasn't helped Alejandro De Aza.

 

Oh man. It didn't help one guy. No one should ever practice again.

Oh man. It didn't help one guy. No one should ever practice again.

You get to a point of no return. Garcia has been playing the OF for at least 7 professional seasons. If he hasn't improved at all by now, chances are he isn't going to ever be much more than average which was the original point.

Aside from tools, the first thing you look for in a defender is reactions, which are instinctual. Avi's reactions are very poor.

 

This is also why judging defense with stats is so tough. Reactions and instincts aren't really tangible.

Edited June 6, 201411 yr by TaylorStSox

Aside from tools, the first thing you look for in a defender is reactions, which are instinctual. Avi's reactions are very poor.

 

This is also why judging defense with stats is so tough. Reactions and instincts aren't really tangible.

 

 

The one commonality that Avi has with others in his shoes are, the ability to be a ball player. Many times

I see and hear how 1 prospects are moved around so they, the club could get the players talent in the game.

maybe sacrificing some defense in returned. I remember a post just today of what to do with the glut of

infielder prospects we have, again putting or shifting 1 to the outfield.

 

has anyone thought this is how maybe Avi came about.

The one commonality that Avi has with others in his shoes are, the ability to be a ball player. Many times

I see and hear how 1 prospects are moved around so they, the club could get the players talent in the game.

maybe sacrificing some defense in returned. I remember a post just today of what to do with the glut of

infielder prospects we have, again putting or shifting 1 to the outfield.

 

has anyone thought this is how maybe Avi came about.

 

 

 

Sure, the Tigers would have loved it if Garcia had the ability to play infield...especially 3B, but he just outgrew that possibility...he's been an outfielder for his entire professional career.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...=avisail-garcia

Edited June 7, 201411 yr by caulfield12