Realistic 2015 Lineup

[witesoxfan]

CF - Lofton

LF - Bonds

1B - Abreu

RF - Ruth

2B - Hornsby

SS - Smith

3B - Schmidt

C - Bench

DH - Dunn

[glangon]

Reallistically we are steadily building. We have some needs but are closer than we were last year.

 

Next year will look something like this:-

 

Catchers

 

Josh Phegley

Tyler Flowers

(unless Hahn can pull a move for a catcher

 

Infield

 

Jose Abreu 1B

Micah Johnson 2B

Alexei Ramirez SS

Conor Gillaspie 3B

 

Marcus Semien UTL

Leury Garcia UTL

Andy Wilkins 1B / DH

 

Outfield

 

Tank LF

Adam Eaton CF

Avi Garcia RF

Jordan Danks OF

 

Rotation

 

Chris Sale

Hector Noesi

Jose Quintana

John Danks

Erik Johnson

 

Bullpen

 

Zach Putnam

Matt Lindstrom

Dan Webb

Erik Surkamp

Carlos Rodon (L)

Scott Carroll (long)

Jake Petricka (Closer)

 

That is the reality of next year. If we pick up some pieces, great.

 

Unless a big deal happens, Alexei and Danks will be staying.

 

Experience will be given to the prospects and Sanchez will probably the odd man out.

 

You may see a lefty come in to replace Surkamp and possibly a righty come into the pen for Putnam, but I'd be surprised.

 

If Alexei is traded, Sanchez will be brought up and we'll probably see a starter come in.

 

Davidson will get a few months in AAA to develop along with Revelo and possibly Tim Anderson.

 

Other than that, Welcome to your 2015 White Sox - The Future is now.

 

Once the experience is given to the guys in 2015, this bunch will be evaluated and Hahn will go for it in 2016.

[LDF]

From a rotation standpoint, I think we'll add one RH starter to slot before or after Quintana.

As bad as Masterson has been, he seems like a guy who might take a short-term deal and hope for a rebound.

That's the type of low risk move we should look into, assuming the more impactful free agent pitchers all

command ridiculous contracts.

 

I think an opening day 1-2-3-4 or Sale, Quintana, Masterson, & Danks is pretty decent. With any

rebound from Justin, it's a rotation that can keep you afloat with a solid offense. As for the #5 spot, have Noesi compete with Johnson (hopefully an offseason fixes him) and see what you got. I think we should plan on Rodon assuming a rotation spot as soon as his service time needs are met so we get the extra half year out of him. Most likely he replaces Noesi/Johnson, but if one of those guys does well, then Danks is probably the odd man out. Regardless, once Rodon is up, the rotation has a chance to be very good next year, with guys like Montas & Danish likely at AA and only a year away.

 

a very good post and I agree. I am talking about pitching now. 1,2 ,3 , now I am looking at Sale, Quint, and Danks.

going into the offseason. Free agent season comes around, watch out,, I bet we will be buyers but not crazy buyers.

Dank is a stopgap kind of pitcher until some of the young talents comes around. you have Noesi as #5. the starting

5 will look sweet. my only concern is with Noesi, has he turn the corner and produce as he is this yr? if not

then we have another hole to fix.

[GGajewski18]

C Flowers- If he can hit at least 250 with these magical glasses, I don't mind him at catcher, it really seems that he is seeing the ball better and has more confidence with these glasses offensively and defensively

 

1B Abreu- No explanation needed

 

2B Semien- Just get rid of Beckham and give this kid the starting spot

 

SS Alexei- He's not going anywhere if Sox want to compete soon

 

3B Gillaspie- Really improved offensively and defensively. Turning into one of my favorite players on the team

 

LF Garcia- Part of the core. Move him to LF because I have a feeling Hahn is going to make a huge move.

 

CF Eaton- Catalyst of this team, leader already, plays the game right and is good at it.

 

RF- Jay Bruce- Acquired for Viciedo, Beck, Sanchez and John Danks

 

DH Matt Davidson- Platoon with Gillaspie at 3B

 

Bench

Nieto

L Garcia

Sierra

??

 

Rotation

Sale

Shields (4 years/70 million)

Quintana

Rodon

Noesi/Rienzo/Johnson

 

Bullpen

Putnam

Webb

Gregorson

Marshall (acquired with Bruce)

Petricka

Belisario

Another lefty than Surkamp

Edited August 1, 2014 by SoxPride18

[2nd_city_saint787]

Reallistically we are steadily building. We have some needs but are closer than we were last year.

 

Next year will look something like this:-

 

Catchers

 

Josh Phegley

Tyler Flowers

(unless Hahn can pull a move for a catcher

 

Infield

 

Jose Abreu 1B

Micah Johnson 2B

Alexei Ramirez SS

Conor Gillaspie 3B

 

Marcus Semien UTL

Leury Garcia UTL

Andy Wilkins 1B / DH

 

Outfield

 

Tank LF

Adam Eaton CF

Avi Garcia RF

Jordan Danks OF

 

Rotation

 

Chris Sale

Hector Noesi

Jose Quintana

John Danks

Erik Johnson

 

Bullpen

 

Zach Putnam

Matt Lindstrom

Dan Webb

Erik Surkamp

Carlos Rodon (L)

Scott Carroll (long)

Jake Petricka (Closer)

 

That is the reality of next year. If we pick up some pieces, great.

 

Unless a big deal happens, Alexei and Danks will be staying.

 

Experience will be given to the prospects and Sanchez will probably the odd man out.

 

You may see a lefty come in to replace Surkamp and possibly a righty come into the pen for Putnam, but I'd be surprised.

 

If Alexei is traded, Sanchez will be brought up and we'll probably see a starter come in.

 

Davidson will get a few months in AAA to develop along with Revelo and possibly Tim Anderson.

 

Other than that, Welcome to your 2015 White Sox - The Future is now.

 

Once the experience is given to the guys in 2015, this bunch will be evaluated and Hahn will go for it in 2016.

 

 

With only 46M committed next year you don't think the Sox add a single player???! I'd be a little shocked if the payroll isn't up to AT LEAST 80M.

[lasttriptotulsa]

From a rotation standpoint, I think we'll add one RH starter to slot before or after Quintana. As bad as Masterson has been, he seems like a guy who might take a short-term deal and hope for a rebound. That's the type of low risk move we should look into, assuming the more impactful free agent pitchers all command ridiculous contracts.

 

I think an opening day 1-2-3-4 or Sale, Quintana, Masterson, & Danks is pretty decent. With any rebound from Justin, it's a rotation that can keep you afloat with a solid offense. As for the #5 spot, have Noesi compete with Johnson (hopefully an offseason fixes him) and see what you got. I think we should plan on Rodon assuming a rotation spot as soon as his service time needs are met so we get the extra half year out of him. Most likely he replaces Noesi/Johnson, but if one of those guys does well, then Danks is probably the odd man out. Regardless, once Rodon is up, the rotation has a chance to be very good next year, with guys like Montas & Danish likely at AA and only a year away.

 

Not really sure what you mean by this. There is no date that allows you to get extra time out of a player. If Rodon is on the opening day roster they get him for 6 years, if not they get him for 6 plus whatever partial he plays in 2015. It doesn't matter when he comes up. I think the date you are thinking of is the Super 2 date, but all that does is determine whether or not a player gets 3 or 4 years of arbitration.

[Eminor3rd]

The catcher position needs to be addressed both in the long and short term.

 

Short: I am and will continue to be in favor of going hard after Russell Martin. I would love to give him a three year deal in the $8m-12m/year range, and I MIGHT be able to be convinced to go to four years. I sign him with the expectation that his bat will not kill me at any point in the contract, and that he will provide above average defense and game-calling through the course of the deal. This will stop the bleeding and give me time to fix the C problem in the system.

 

If I can't manage to get Martin at a price I can handle, I sign the best end-of-the-line veteran backup type on as short a deal as possible and promise him the inside track to a starting job assuming I can't manage to make a trade for a young, MLB-ready stud. In this instance, Flowers would serve as the backup. If I even tender a contract to Flowers. It may be more valuable to give Phegley another shot. Nieto goes to AA.

 

Long: I am trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees and I am demanding the best C prospect I can get. A name that I'm targeting that is under the radar is Luis Torrens, who is currently tearing up the NYPL and has recently snuck into the back end of some Yankees prospect lists as a result. I admit to some bias as I've watched him regularly this year (I work for his team). He's 18 years old and just snapped a 21 game hitting streak during which he looked really, really ready to move up. I have no idea how to evaluate most of his defense, but he's made some really killer throws that are both accurate and strong. He's a few years away, but he's got a chance to be an all-around contributor.

 

Interesting enough, the other best hitter on his team is also a catcher, Isaias Tejeda who is old for the level (22 in short season A), but has really broken out this year. They've been sharing C and DH duties to keep the bats in the lineup. Not sure if Tejeda is legit or just beating up on younger kids, but I bet he could come as a throw-in to any deal.

 

I'm going to apologize in advance now for the fact that I'm going to beat the drum for Torrens all the way up until Alexei is moved, because I think Alexei is the perfect fit for the Yankees and they're the only team in the majors who has this many catching prospects.

[ron883]

1b: Abreu

2b: Semien

SS: Sanchez

3b: Gillaspie

C: Smith

CF: Eaton

RF: Avi

LF: Ravelo

DH: Wilkins

 

SP:

Sale

Quintana

Beck

Rodon

Danish

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Not sure how it looks but I think the plan is:

 

Rotation:

1) Sign or trade for a RHSP we can pencil in as the #2

2) Danks is gone, Rodon starts in Triple A to start the season IF he doesn't win a ST SP battle

3) Noesi is the RHSP in the 4th slot but he has to battle someone (with actual ability, not just Carroll, but probably Johnson, Beck, and hopefully a new addition)

 

Bullpen:

1) Sign one veteran RH for the late innings to a 1-year deal or 2 year deal with an option (more of a major signing)

2) Trade for or sign a lefty (more of a larger acquistion, like Downs was)

3) Spot patch the rest of the way, giving up no real prospects, taking on little if any salary

 

Offense/Defense:

1) Acquire a big, young LH power bat.... we may need to make a bigger deal for this to happen, so I'm not sure it does happen because it might cost Q to get someone at the MLB level or close

2) Find a 2016+ SS

 

Catcher:

1) Flowers is fine at least as a backup because if nothing else he can handle the staff

2) Nieto should be in the minors starting unless the Sox are somehow extremely aggressive with him

3) The Sox should look to trade for or sign a veteran until someone younger/better fitting comes along... but no way should the Sox deal their biggest pieces to try to plug the C hole with a prospect, that would likely be a huge mistake IMO because most of these guys flat out bust

4) If the Sox can't find a longer term (3+) year solution at catcher for a reasonable price then get a platoon partner for Flowers or a marginal upgrade, but someone who can handle the staff, and just deal with it

 

Trades:

1) Alexei needs to be traded because he's our best piece aside from Q

2) Tank needs to be traded because he's probably one of our best avenues to bring in a player with upside, and although the player we get will probably look like a bust or be underwhelming there should be real talent there

3) Sox should be willing to eat some cash or package a small piece to move Danks and clear the way for Rodon

[caulfield12]

I'll break it down positionally.

 

Catchers

Tyler Flowers

Wilin Rosario (traded for Dayan Viciedo)

 

Infielders

Jose Abreu

Alexei Ramirez

Marcus Semien

Micah Johnson

Andy Wilkins

Conor Gillaspie

Leury Garcia

 

Outfielders

Adam Eaton

Avisail Garcia

Alejandro De Aza

Moises Sierra

Marcus Semien

Micah Johnson

Leury Garcia

 

Starting Pitchers

Chris Sale

Jose Quintana

John Danks

Hector Noesi

winner of ST battle between Scott Carroll/Erik Surkamp/Erik Johnson

 

Relief Pitchers

Jake Petricka

Ronald Belisario

Zach Putnam

Dan Webb

Surkamp (if he loses 5th starter battle)

Carroll (if he loses 5th starter battle)

Tom Gorzelanny

Jesse Crain (if Johnson is not winner of 5th starter battle)

 

Not the most eventful offseason, culminating in us buying low on Wilin Rosario and selling low on Tank who might profile better for a COL team that plays in a hitter friendly park and is getting sick of Rosario. Sox treat catcher position as open position, but hope Rosario earns it with his bat and remains adequate defensively.

 

Rather than target a full-time DH, that position will be used much like it is now in Charlotte to get extra at-bats for guys and partial rest days for guys. Same with LF - no obvious full-time player there, but instead a way to relieve the glut of infielders you have. And while Gillaspie is your starting 3B, but may lose most starts against LHP. I would say there's some chance Sanchez gets the nod over Micah to start the year.

 

We don't target SPs in FA due to barely adequate depth and desire for continued payroll flexibility. By the time SP depth looks like significant concern, hopefully Rodon emerges from a MiLB stint as SP.

 

Sample lineup against RHP

 

Eaton CF

Ramirez SS

Abreu 1B

Gillaspie 3B

A. Garcia RF

Wilkins DH

Rosario C

Johnson LF

Semien 2B

 

against LHP

Eaton CF

Ramirez SS

Abreu 1B

A. Garcia RF

Rosario DH

Gillaspie 3B

Semien 2B

Flowers C

Sierra RF

 

If everything goes right, it's a good team. If not, you're looking at a year like this one...except with this team, you'll know exactly what holes you need to fill to have a really good team the next season. This year we're in a bit of a holding pattern because there are several young players in the high minors and MLB that we aren't sure about just yet.

 

 

Why would you bother keeping DeAza then?

 

What makes you think Sierra's a better option than Viciedo?

 

Why would you think Micah Johnson is ready for the majors, and that it should be in LF, where he's never played and probably not very comfortable...?

 

Semien will be moved to the OF before Micah Johnson, in my opinion.

[Jose Abreu]

Offense/Defense:

1) Acquire a big, young LH power bat.... we may need to make a bigger deal for this to happen, so I'm not sure it does happen because it might cost Q to get someone at the MLB level or close

2) Find a 2016+ SS

1) A big, young, LH power bat... how many of those are even out there? 4? We'd have to give up a lot.

 

2) I think that would be Tim Anderson.

[Jose Abreu]

Semien will be moved to the OF before Micah Johnson, in my opinion.

Semien has already been moved to OF

[The Ultimate Champion]

1) A big, young, LH power bat... how many of those are even out there? 4? We'd have to give up a lot.

 

2) I think that would be Tim Anderson.

Yeah that's why I said we may not be able to get one, they are hard to find.

 

Ideally we would be able to get a kid at the AA or higher level in an Alexei deal, but we'd have to go after prospects and young MLB players who haven't fully developed yet because you can't just acquire someone like that who is proven.

[caulfield12]

Lineup: handedness | name | position | '15 opening day age

L Eaton CF 26

R Semien SS 24

L Gillaspie 3B 27

R Abreu 1B 28

S Grandal C 26

L Wilkins DH 26

R Garcia LF 23

L Johnson 2B 24

R Castillo RF 27

 

Bench: handedness | name | position | '15 opening day age

S Nieto C 25

R Viciedo DH/OF 26

R Saladino UT 25

L De Aza OF 31

 

Rotation: handedness | name | position | '15 opening day age

L Sale SP 26

R Maeda SP 27

L Quintana SP 26

R Noesi SP 28

L Danks SP 30

 

Bullpen: handedness | name | position | '15 opening day age

R Petricka CL 26

L Torres SU 27

R Putnam SU 27

R Webb MR 25

R Belisario MR 32

L Surkamp LO 27

R Carroll LR 30

 

Our payroll commitment for '15 is just a bit north of 46m, nearly half of our payroll from '14 and down 73m from 2013. 2015 is still a rebuilding year but there is an opportunity to be a dark horse. The white sox greatest needs going into this offseason as chitownsportsfan said are "C, LF, 2B, SP, PEN & DH".

 

C & Pen - Trade Flowers, Davidson and sell high on the helium of Ravelo to the padres for Grandal and Torres. Grandal is having a down year but still offers a ton of upside and torres is relatively young and cheap. Hedges is their long term solution at C, flowers is just filling in till he is ready, Davidson is having a down year as well but he himself offers a fair amount of upside in power and Ravelo isn't going to be manning 1B for the sox anytime soon and the sox don't appear to be willing to move him back to 3B or the outfield.

 

LF/OF - Castillo could be a great addition the white sox and they've got plenty of money to make it happen a right handed Brett Gardner patrolling RF with the range and ability to be a center fielder? sign me up.

 

2B - Middle infield is backed up with talent that needs be afforded the opportunity to showcase what they have at the major league level between Saladino, Semien, Johnson & Sanchez.

 

SP - Maeda has publically said he wants to be posted by the carp and while he isn't on the same page as Tanaka he does compare favorably with someone like Anibal Sanchez, Paying premium rates to regular FA pitchers at 30 or closing isn't a great use of the sox fiscal resources.

 

DH - I can't see the sox going 3 years with a mutual option to land Martinez after the year he is having and quite frankly it would another waste of money. Knowing that this is a rebuilding year I wouldn't mind seeing what a platoon of Wilkins and Viciedo could accomplish for relatively cheap.

 

Saladino provided he comes back from TJ alright was crushing it down at AAA but especially left handers to the tune of .330/.396/.543 - .939 they had him playing all over the diamond this year including the outfield so i think he would be a great piece on the bench to platoon with Conor seeing how Micah actually hits left handers fairly well and might even have a reverse platoon split and eaton is pretty neutral across the board.

 

Lastly I would love to see Erik Johnson get back on track and eventually replace Noesi and live up to his hype as a #2/3 starter and ideally Danks expiring contract and solid performance next year affords him to be moved when Rodon is ready.

 

 

I think you are severely overestimating the value of Davidson, Rusney Castillo and Maeda. Comparing him to Anibal Sanchez...that dude has one of the best ERA's in baseball over the last 2-3 seasons. Expecting that out of an even more unknown Japanese pitcher is just a recipe for disaster.

[caulfield12]

Semien has already been moved to OF

 

I meant at the major league level...as a serious consideration, instead of just an experiment like it would be with Micah.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I like the Martin idea (as well as the deal for Salty option Roostifer considered before) as far as a shorter term stopgap. But I hate the idea of trading one of our best pieces in Alexei for a C prospect. C prospects bust at an incredible rate. I want to get someone else's proven player. And really look arond the league, you don't need an ideal type of C to win ballgames. The A's didn't spend a lot acquiring a C, the Jays signed Navarro for free as did the Rays and Cubs before, etc. We need to get a SP, LH bat, or an MLB ready SS out of Alexei. Or if it is a RH bat then it needs to be a damn good one in terms of potential. The LH bat is our biggest need.

[Jake]

Why would you bother keeping DeAza then?

 

What makes you think Sierra's a better option than Viciedo?

 

Why would you think Micah Johnson is ready for the majors, and that it should be in LF, where he's never played and probably not very comfortable...?

 

Semien will be moved to the OF before Micah Johnson, in my opinion.

 

Keep ADA because there's no reason not to - good depth.

 

Sierra isn't a better option than Viciedo, I traded DV for Wilin Rosario.

 

The org. seems to really like Micah Johnson so while I think he probably isn't quite ready, I think he could start the year in MLB. Semien is a better defensive player so it's my hope they keep Semien in the IF more often but I think they work them both out at multiple positions.

[Chisoxfn]

With the trade deadline behind us, I'm interested to see what you all think our 2015 team will look like.

My prediction:

 

1. Eaton

2. Ramirez

3. Gillaspie

4. Abreu

5. Viciedo

6. Garcia

7. Davidson (DH/3B)

8. Micah Johnson

9. Flowers

 

With a bench of Nieto, Leury, Sierra, and Carlos Sanchez.

 

Pitching-

1. Sale

2. James Shields

3. Quintana

4. Erik Johnson/FA/Noesi

5. Danks

 

Putnam

Petricka

Joe Thatcher

Surkamp

Luke Gregerson

Webb

Guerra

Casey Janssen

I am dissapointed that the Sox didn't do anything to add an impact left handed bat. Right now I have zero hope of Davidson being a regular. I hope that changes but with his flaws at the plate he's not going to cut it currently.

[Jose Abreu]

For those of you insisting that we need to trade for a proven LH power bat, here's a list of LH hitters with 15+ HRs this year:

 

David Ortiz- won't be traded

Anthony Rizzo- won't be traded

Brandon Moss- well, they gave up Cespedes, so why not Moss?

Lucas Duda- could be acquired

Chris Davis- probably won't be traded

Adam Dunn- no

Juan Francisco- not good enough

Ryan Howard- terrible contract, old

Kyle Seager- won't be traded

Pedro Alvarez- probably won't be traded

Michael Brantley- probably won't be traded

Freddie Freeman- won't be traded

Adrian Gonzalez- terrible contract

Curtis Granderson- terrible contract, underperforming

 

So basically we can get Francisco, Duda, or Moss.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Jose Abreu

[The Ultimate Champion]

" Trade Flowers, Davidson and sell high on the helium of Ravelo"

 

Yeah I think Hahn would have done that a zillion times over if he could have. That deal brings back a bag of balls, even if you drive them all to the airport yourself, because aside from the risk/reward factor their hit tools all suck, except Ravelo who doesn't project to have surplus value.

[cabiness42]

I am dissapointed that the Sox didn't do anything to add an impact left handed bat. Right now I have zero hope of Davidson being a regular. I hope that changes but with his flaws at the plate he's not going to cut it currently.

 

You have to wait for THE PLAN to play itself out. Right now the Sox are in the process of acquiring all the left handed pitchers. Every single one of them. Once that is accomplished, left handed hitters will be fighting each other off to sign with the Sox so they don't have to face said pitchers.

 

[Jake]

Trading Davidson would be hilariously stupid. That's not how you deal with prospects. When they play badly for the first time in their career right after you trade for them, you don't just assume that suddenly they are bad.

[witesoxfan]

Not sure how it looks but I think the plan is:

 

Rotation:

1) Sign or trade for a RHSP we can pencil in as the #2

2) Danks is gone, Rodon starts in Triple A to start the season IF he doesn't win a ST SP battle

3) Noesi is the RHSP in the 4th slot but he has to battle someone (with actual ability, not just Carroll, but probably Johnson, Beck, and hopefully a new addition)

 

Bullpen:

1) Sign one veteran RH for the late innings to a 1-year deal or 2 year deal with an option (more of a major signing)

2) Trade for or sign a lefty (more of a larger acquistion, like Downs was)

3) Spot patch the rest of the way, giving up no real prospects, taking on little if any salary

 

Offense/Defense:

1) Acquire a big, young LH power bat.... we may need to make a bigger deal for this to happen, so I'm not sure it does happen because it might cost Q to get someone at the MLB level or close

2) Find a 2016+ SS

 

Catcher:

1) Flowers is fine at least as a backup because if nothing else he can handle the staff

2) Nieto should be in the minors starting unless the Sox are somehow extremely aggressive with him

3) The Sox should look to trade for or sign a veteran until someone younger/better fitting comes along... but no way should the Sox deal their biggest pieces to try to plug the C hole with a prospect, that would likely be a huge mistake IMO because most of these guys flat out bust

4) If the Sox can't find a longer term (3+) year solution at catcher for a reasonable price then get a platoon partner for Flowers or a marginal upgrade, but someone who can handle the staff, and just deal with it

 

Trades:

1) Alexei needs to be traded because he's our best piece aside from Q

2) Tank needs to be traded because he's probably one of our best avenues to bring in a player with upside, and although the player we get will probably look like a bust or be underwhelming there should be real talent there

3) Sox should be willing to eat some cash or package a small piece to move Danks and clear the way for Rodon

 

But the Sox have a big, young LH power bat. His name is Adam Dunn.

[Chisoxfn]

Trading Davidson would be hilariously stupid. That's not how you deal with prospects. When they play badly for the first time in their career right after you trade for them, you don't just assume that suddenly they are bad.

When they strike out consistently at the rates he is, you can start to assume they won't make it. However, trading him would be foolish. He has little value anyway and the potential upside is more valuable of whatever you'd get. He's barely a top 10 prospect in this system anymore. That said, the tools and potential upside is there and he happens to play at a position that is extremely thin in the majors (major league baseball as a whole...I realize we get connor) which adds to his potential value and means he doesn't have to be some great hitter to still be an average to above average 3rd baseman.

[Chisoxfn]

But the Sox have a big, young LH power bat. His name is Adam Dunn.

They have a future shortstop and his name is Cledius Rondon. We are talking about a guy with potential Simmons defensive upside. Maybe not that good but a tick short. In this new era of low offense, there is an extreme amount of value in a guy like that at a premium defensive position like shortstop. I also think he's capable of learning how to slap out some hits and hit well enough that his bat doesn't completely negate his defensive value and over time, his bat will get better. Good bat speed, great legs, etc.