It's about that time of the year again...

[Eminor3rd]

I feel the same way and you worded it much better than I did.

 

I think where we disagree on this one is that I don't think the Sox would have any problem giving Stanton $25 mill a year. Thanks to the contracts they've signed with Sale and Quintana (assuming you didn't use Quintana to acquire him), they've gained some leeway in giving out extra money, and he'd clearly be worth it. Beyond that, I think he's the type of player who you can trade too if you need to recoup some value. He's also a very good candidate for an opt out after 4 years, which hurts the club long-term but assures you get more than the initial service time guarantee.

 

Again, all hypothetical, but it's fun to try and quantify the value of certain players on the team.

 

Yeah, I mean I think on paper they absolutely could give him that, just like you say. It's just so completely bigger than anything they've ever done, that at some point you really do have to wonder if the level of risk tolerance is a mandate from ownership. But you're right: in theory, that's exactly the luxury that those below-market extensions afford.

 

Then again, they also just dished out the largest contract in international free agent history this winter.

 

Regarding his eventual annual salary -- I think there's a huge difference if he gets extended or if he hits free agency. Either way, teams have shown willingness to take on years to deals rather than increase annual salary past the 'ceiling' of 25-30m. In free agency, I don't think there's any doubt he's on track for 30m+, but in the event of an extension, I think he'll be more concerned with the grand total than the yearly rate, and a team will ultimately tack on a few more years to keep it in the mid 20s per year.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[caulfield12]

Certainly not wrong, but that team still had a big time offense. We need a Dye to our PK(Abreu).

 

If they can snag Stanton they're probably gonna be willing to put that payroll back up into the 120 range. Say Stanton gets 25M a year, that'll put the Sox salary at ~75M next year, 71M in 2016, Danks and Lexi's 25M come off the books in 2017, and Abreu/Sale are the only guys locked up in 2018.

 

Trading Lexi for pitching could also free up even more $.

 

If they do decide to get that payroll back up to ~120 Stantons ~25 wouldn't prevent them from adding pitching.

 

 

When does Quintana's deal end? Shouldn't it at least be through 2018, if not longer?

[2nd_city_saint787]

When does Quintana's deal end? Shouldn't it at least be through 2018, if not longer?

 

Well I hypothetically said I'd give up Q for Stanton. If they can get Stanton without giving up Q then that makes things even better because of how cheap his contract is. Tack on a meager 3.4, 5.4, 7, and 8.4 million respectively through 2018 with a 10.5 and 11.5 option for 2019 and 2020.

 

 

[LDF]

I have a question for those who follow this closely. Where is the predicted drop-off? In other words, are the top five ( for example) players close enough that any of them would be a great pick? Is there one player who is the slam-dunk, can't miss number one guy?

 

Obviously, there is always a chance of a bust regardless.

 

I may be a minority here on this thought process, but I can envision the sox picking up free agent

Norichika Aoki as another starting outfielder. I really like eaton and what he has done this yr. however

I can't see him not getting injured, again. with Aoki as another option for leadoff, and with eaton, that

can be an exciting top of the order, or 1 of them to #6

 

Aoki will be low cost, for a limited amount of yr. now the biggest problem is DV. I say until his future

is decided with the sox, DH him.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I may be a minority here on this thought process, but I can envision the sox picking up free agent

Norichika Aoki as another starting outfielder. I really like eaton and what he has done this yr. however

I can't see him not getting injured, again. with Aoki as another option for leadoff, and with eaton, that

can be an exciting top of the order, or 1 of them to #6

 

Aoki will be low cost, for a limited amount of yr. now the biggest problem is DV. I say until his future

is decided with the sox, DH him.

 

Yea you probably will be in the minority. I like Aoki and I think he can be a good piece on a contending club (such as he is with the Royals), but I do not think he can be THE piece to make a team a contender. If he is our big splash offseason pickup, we aren't going anywhere next year either. I'm really hoping they make a play for Rasmus. He's kind of fallen out of favor with the Jays (they haven't even been starting him recently) so he will almost certainly be looking to move and with his sub par season his cost will probably drop. I think he gives good power from the left side (20-25 homers), plays good defense with a great arm and has plus speed. A starting lineup of him, Eaton and Garcia could be pretty potent.

Edited September 5, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa

[Balta1701]

Yea you probably will be in the minority. I like Aoki and I think he can be a good piece on a contending club (such as he is with the Royals), but I do not think he can be THE piece to make a team a contender. If he is our big splash offseason pickup, we aren't going anywhere next year either. I'm really hoping they make a play for Rasmus. He's kind of fallen out of favor with the Jays (they haven't even been starting him recently) so he will almost certainly be looking to move and with his sub par season his cost will probably drop. I think he gives good power from the left side (20-25 homers), plays good defense with a great arm and has plus speed. A starting lineup of him, Eaton and Garcia could be pretty potent.

The fact that Rasmus has now "fallen out of favor" with a pair of teams is probably going to be a big hint.

[LittleHurt05]

The fact that Rasmus has now "fallen out of favor" with a pair of teams is probably going to be a big hint.

 

It will be very interesting to see what kind of contract he gets. He's obviously talented but he hasn't been able to put it all together for a full season and the whole "fallen out of favor" factor. That being said, in today's game, younger talented players get locked up so often, sometime will probably be willing to take a chance on him with a larger contract.

[lasttriptotulsa]

The fact that Rasmus has now "fallen out of favor" with a pair of teams is probably going to be a big hint.

 

With the Cardinals it was due to the fact that LaRussa didn't like Colby because Colby's dad would interject himself because he thought he was some hot shot because he coaches high school. Colby had the hitting coach trying to work with him and his dad going against the hitting coach. I'd imagine that was tough for a 22 year old whose dad had coached him his whole life to deal with. With the Jays, it's all been performance based because of his down year this year.

[Eminor3rd]

The fact that Rasmus has now "fallen out of favor" with a pair of teams is probably going to be a big hint.

 

We had our shot at Rasmus and passed when the front office decided they'd rather use Jackson to dump Teahen's contract. We're not going to get Rasmus, the org clearly doesn't like him.

[lasttriptotulsa]

We had our shot at Rasmus and passed when the front office decided they'd rather use Jackson to dump Teahen's contract. We're not going to get Rasmus, the org clearly doesn't like him.

 

According to most reports, the Sox were interested in Rasmus at the time and KW basically confirmed their interest. I remember hearing talks that KW was actually a big fan of Rasmus and had his eye on him for awhile. Who knows what else the Sox were willing to offer STL. It's not like the Jays ended up getting him straight up for Jackson.

Edited September 5, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa

[Eminor3rd]

According to most reports, the Sox were interested in Rasmus at the time and KW basically confirmed their interest. I remember hearing talks that KW was actually a big fan of Rasmus and had his eye on him for awhile. Who knows what else the Sox were willing to offer STL. It's not like the Jays ended up getting him straight up for Jackson.

 

They got him for Jackson and two platoon relievers, and they got a bunch of random other relievers back. We could have beat the offer.

 

I think this is a case of "actions speak louder than words."

Edited September 5, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[lasttriptotulsa]

They got him for Jackson and two platoon relievers, and they got a bunch of random other relievers back. We could have beat the offer.

 

I think this is a case of "actions speak louder than words."

 

Being able to beat an offer and willing to beat an offer are two different things. Doing a quick Google search, I found numerous articles stating that the Sox were also in talks after 2010 to acquire Rasmus and that Quentin was part of the proposed deal. So you're notion that they did not like him is just wrong.

[LDF]

Certainly not wrong, but that team still had a big time offense. We need a Dye to our PK(Abreu).

 

If they can snag Stanton they're probably gonna be willing to put that payroll back up into the 120 range. Say Stanton gets 25M a year, that'll put the Sox salary at ~75M next year, 71M in 2016, Danks and Lexi's 25M come off the books in 2017, and Abreu/Sale are the only guys locked up in 2018.

 

Trading Lexi for pitching could also free up even more $$.

 

If they do decide to get that payroll back up to ~120 Stantons ~25 wouldn't prevent them from adding pitching.

 

without factoring the prospects that the sox have to sacrifice to get him, I will deal with the salary

aspect. a big team like Dodgers who has their own tv deal would likely benefit from union with Stanton.

first Stanton will make the Dodgers a very attractive team to watch, to clamor to go and see, which

will improve on the attendance and finally advertising. it a win, win situation.

 

as much as I wouldn't mind the sox going for it, it would be too much to pay to get him here in chi.

[Balta1701]

without factoring the prospects that the sox have to sacrifice to get him, I will deal with the salary

aspect. a big team like Dodgers who has their own tv deal would likely benefit from union with Stanton.

first Stanton will make the Dodgers a very attractive team to watch, to clamor to go and see, which

will improve on the attendance and finally advertising. it a win, win situation.

 

as much as I wouldn't mind the sox going for it, it would be too much to pay to get him here in chi.

At this point, from a discussion we had earlier this year, the dodgers TV deal appears to be set and the Dodgers get that big pool of money regardless of what happens elsewhere. They may still have the money to spend on him but they won't make up for it with new TV revenues.

[LDF]

Being able to beat an offer and willing to beat an offer are two different things. Doing a quick Google search, I found numerous articles stating that the Sox were also in talks after 2010 to acquire Rasmus and that Quentin was part of the proposed deal. So you're notion that they did not like him is just wrong.

 

you may be right, however since then, no other rumors out there. I am sure if the sox were

hot after him since 2010, the trade would have happen. now with Hahn and a new regime

in the front office, I don't think getting him is in the picture.

[LDF]

At this point, from a discussion we had earlier this year, the dodgers TV deal appears to be set and the Dodgers get that big pool of money regardless of what happens elsewhere. They may still have the money to spend on him but they won't make up for it with new TV revenues.

 

you are prob right, but I thought the tv deal is in limbo b/c of some contractual situation. either way,

with him, and the tv deal, more people outside la would like to follow them. pretty much like a cable

deal or direct tv deal. something like that.

[Balta1701]

you are prob right, but I thought the tv deal is in limbo b/c of some contractual situation. either way,

with him, and the tv deal, more people outside la would like to follow them. pretty much like a cable

deal or direct tv deal. something like that.

From what I understood earlier this year, the contractual situation relates not to the Dodgers and Time Warner, but between Time Warner and the other TV providers in the area who are fighting the high rates being charged for the channel that carries Dodgers games. Basically the Dodgers/Time Warner contract is done, and Time Warner stands to lose a huge amount of money on that contract because they've been unable to bully the rest of the TV Providers int he LA Area to carry the Dodgers channel.

[Kyyle23]

Certainly not wrong, but that team still had a big time offense. We need a Dye to our PK(Abreu).

 

If they can snag Stanton they're probably gonna be willing to put that payroll back up into the 120 range. Say Stanton gets 25M a year, that'll put the Sox salary at ~75M next year, 71M in 2016, Danks and Lexi's 25M come off the books in 2017, and Abreu/Sale are the only guys locked up in 2018.

 

Trading Lexi for pitching could also free up even more $$.

 

If they do decide to get that payroll back up to ~120 Stantons ~25 wouldn't prevent them from adding pitching.

 

IIRC the Sox had a pretty mediocre offense, right in the middle of the pack

[LDF]

From what I understood earlier this year, the contractual situation relates not to the Dodgers and Time Warner, but between Time Warner and the other TV providers in the area who are fighting the high rates being charged for the channel that carries Dodgers games. Basically the Dodgers/Time Warner contract is done, and Time Warner stands to lose a huge amount of money on that contract because they've been unable to bully the rest of the TV Providers int he LA Area to carry the Dodgers channel.

 

so the situation has been resolve. ok, I was ref the black out they had until the situation was

taken care of.

[Balta1701]

IIRC the Sox had a pretty mediocre offense, right in the middle of the pack

They hit a lot of home runs but were pretty bad at everything else.

[LDF]

Yea you probably will be in the minority. I like Aoki and I think he can be a good piece on a contending club

(such as he is with the Royals), but I do not think he can be THE piece to make a team a contender. If he

is our big splash offseason pickup, we aren't going anywhere next year either. I'm really hoping they make

a play for Rasmus. He's kind of fallen out of favor with the Jays (they haven't even been starting him recently)

so he will almost certainly be looking to move and with his sub par season his cost will probably drop. I think

he gives good power from the left side (20-25 homers), plays good defense with a great arm and has plus

speed. A starting lineup of him, Eaton and Garcia could be pretty potent.

 

there are several factors to consider. players on the team that needs to be move and getting a player who

can be your DH or another player to play a position. spending a limited amount on Aoki, movie DV to dh

then spending on pitching.

 

as someone mention, the sox may not spend huge in the free agent market, but fixing up holes and buying

some time is what I am looking at.

[2nd_city_saint787]

IIRC the Sox had a pretty mediocre offense, right in the middle of the pack

 

Ah yes, I was looking at them and comparing them to this years standards...They scored 741 that year which is 235 more than this year, but only ranked 13th in 05.

 

Still want Stanton if possible. I think they can get him while also being able to upgrade the pitching staff.

[Eminor3rd]

Being able to beat an offer and willing to beat an offer are two different things. Doing a quick Google search, I found numerous articles stating that the Sox were also in talks after 2010 to acquire Rasmus and that Quentin was part of the proposed deal. So you're notion that they did not like him is just wrong.

 

Again, actions speak louder than words. If you want to cite some trade rumors as making me "just wrong," you can, but the reality is we had the bullets to get him (the centerpiece of the deal WAS our bullet) and we moved $10m of dead weight contracts instead. If he wasn't worth Edwin Jackson and a couple of relievers to us before, he isn't worth anywhere close to his free agent contract to us now that he's older and more disappointing. When presented with "Colby Rasmus or $10m," we chose $10m.

[LDF]

Again, actions speak louder than words. If you want to cite some trade rumors as making me "just wrong," you can, but the reality is we had the bullets to get him (the centerpiece of the deal WAS our bullet) and we moved $10m of dead weight contracts instead. If he wasn't worth Edwin Jackson and a couple of relievers to us before, he isn't worth anywhere close to his free agent contract to us now that he's older and more disappointing. When presented with "Colby Rasmus or $10m," we chose $10m.

 

*cough cough hmmm that was harsh.

 

but it needed to be said. good job

[lasttriptotulsa]

Again, actions speak louder than words. If you want to cite some trade rumors as making me "just wrong," you can, but the reality is we had the bullets to get him (the centerpiece of the deal WAS our bullet) and we moved $10m of dead weight contracts instead. If he wasn't worth Edwin Jackson and a couple of relievers to us before, he isn't worth anywhere close to his free agent contract to us now that he's older and more disappointing. When presented with "Colby Rasmus or $10m," we chose $10m.

 

When you state that a team who went out on two separate occasions to try and acquire a player does not like said player, you are wrong. If they didn't like him, KW never would have picked up the phone and given the Cardinals a call. Maybe they didn't like him enough to give up what they would have had to give up, but that's far different than stating that they did not like him.