Ferguson Riots

[RockRaines]

No, they have tear gassed journalists who were setting up equipment next to their news van. I posted the pictures and videos and links pages ago. This was last week.

 

I also watched some of the live coverage last week. They were shooting tear gas into completely peaceful crowds.

 

 

 

Because they have a right if not a duty to cover the news? Because you're being silly when you paint everything as a "violent mob?"

 

 

 

They have pointed a bunch of deadly force and unarmed people. That in itself is an overreaction. The pictures and videos have been posted in this thread and they're easily googled.

 

They did return fire in that shooting that IIRC was unrelated but in the area a week or so ago.

They cant cover the news from a safe area away from a mob that was warned over and over and over? Pointing deadly force? Last night they had guns with rubber bullets, and the police were still being shot at with REAL bullets. Should they only have short range tasers?

 

I'd like to know how you believe the police should react when looting and shooting is happening around a residential area filled with actual peaceful protesters and media. Water cannons? Let them be and let innocent people get shot? Let more innocent business owners lose their livelihood?

 

Once again, everyone hates the police until they need them.

[RockRaines]

I mean, how on earth could you say that this isn't an overreaction:

 

 

These are protesters on the streets of an American city. This isn't a war zone. Hell, veterans from actual war zones have pointed out how stupid this posture is.

LOL@ that article. He should have just written that army men are tougher than anyone ever. I guess I shouldnt be shocked that someone who rambled for pages on how Brown got shot in the back is so easily influenced by media stories.

Edited August 19, 2014 by RockRaines

[bmags]

I think people should realize the schizm from last week to this week. Since the change from County to City police last Thursday, they have done a better job of separating treatment between protestors and rioters (see: antonio french's twitter). Most of SS examples are from last week. While there have been exceptions this week, it's been largely better.

[bmags]

I hope the next time an innocent cop gets killed by a criminal white people protest and riot

 

The white people will wait for a sporting event, something that actually matters, right?

[RockRaines]

I think people should realize the schizm from last week to this week. Since the change from County to City police last Thursday, they have done a better job of separating treatment between protestors and rioters (see: antonio french's twitter). Most of SS examples are from last week. While there have been exceptions this week, it's been largely better.

You can easily see it with your own eyes if you turn on the TV and watch live feeds. The police are trying to balance between allowing a protest and keeping people safe. A shooting happens literally a block away from the crowd so the police try to move the people out of the area to stop any further violence. The very notion that the Police are trying to tell them to do anything, even if its for their own safety is all of a sudden the craziest thing ever. If someone at that moment threw another molotov cocktail and it happened to injure those peaceful protesters or media the Police wouldnt be doing enough.

 

I'd love to hear options on how to better ensure the safety of innocent people vs the violence that can and will occur every night. It a miracle it hasnt been worse.

[StrangeSox]

Going back to whether Wilson chased after Brown or not, I just saw this from Piaget Crenshaw, one of the first witnesses and one of the ones who claims Wilson shot Brown with his hand in the air.

 

Piaget Crenshaw, a witness to the shooting, said that from her vantage point, it appeared that the police officer and Brown were arm wrestling before the officer initially shot Brown from within his vehicle. The officer then chased Brown for about 20 feet before shooting him again. Crenshaw stated, "I saw the police chase him...down the street and shoot him down."[55] She added that when Brown then raised his arms, the officer shot him two more times, killing him.

 

So, setting aside whether Brown turned around and put his arms in the air or turned around and gestured and charged at Wilson, it does seem like Wilson ran after Brown.

[bmags]

You can easily see it with your own eyes if you turn on the TV and watch live feeds. The police are trying to balance between allowing a protest and keeping people safe. A shooting happens literally a block away from the crowd so the police try to move the people out of the area to stop any further violence. The very notion that the Police are trying to tell them to do anything, even if its for their own safety is all of a sudden the craziest thing ever. If someone at that moment threw another molotov cocktail and it happened to injure those peaceful protesters or media the Police wouldnt be doing enough.

 

I'd love to hear options on how to better ensure the safety of innocent people vs the violence that can and will occur every night. It a miracle it hasnt been worse.

 

But, I don't know if this is ss's point, but it also could have been a lot better had the response not been so heavy handed and tonedeaf to the original peaceful protests. There have been too many cooks in the kitchen, they set up Johnson, well received, they immediately cut his legs out from under him.

[StrangeSox]

You can easily see it with your own eyes if you turn on the TV and watch live feeds. The police are trying to balance between allowing a protest and keeping people safe. A shooting happens literally a block away from the crowd so the police try to move the people out of the area to stop any further violence. The very notion that the Police are trying to tell them to do anything, even if its for their own safety is all of a sudden the craziest thing ever. If someone at that moment threw another molotov cocktail and it happened to injure those peaceful protesters or media the Police wouldnt be doing enough.

 

I'd love to hear options on how to better ensure the safety of innocent people vs the violence that can and will occur every night. It a miracle it hasnt been worse.

 

I admittedly have not seen the live coverage since Friday. For the first week, the police response was a drastic overreaction. Things may have changed for the better since then, but the response during the first week is still an issue.

 

But, I don't know if this is ss's point, but it also could have been a lot better had the response not been so heavy handed and tonedeaf to the original peaceful protests. There have been too many cooks in the kitchen, they set up Johnson, well received, they immediately cut his legs out from under him.

 

That is a part of it. If you take a strong, heavily armed posture, you're going to raise tensions and set everyone on edge from the get-go. There was rioting that first Sunday, and the county police decided the best response was a crackdown on everybody and anybody, including journalists. M4s and woodland camo pants are not needed on the streets of Ferguson, MO. That isn't riot or crowd control gear.

 

Edited August 19, 2014 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

Going back to whether Wilson chased after Brown or not, I just saw this from Piaget Crenshaw, one of the first witnesses and one of the ones who claims Wilson shot Brown with his hand in the air.

 

 

 

So, setting aside whether Brown turned around and put his arms in the air or turned around and gestured and charged at Wilson, it does seem like Wilson ran after Brown.

She also admitted that when the shtos first rang out she was gone for 30 seconds to get her phone and only got back when he was already laying down in the street. She also said he fled with his hands in the air which was proven false by the direction of the bullet graze which then made her change her story again.

Edited August 19, 2014 by RockRaines

[southsider2k5]

They cant cover the news from a safe area away from a mob that was warned over and over and over? Pointing deadly force? Last night they had guns with rubber bullets, and the police were still being shot at with REAL bullets. Should they only have short range tasers?

 

I'd like to know how you believe the police should react when looting and shooting is happening around a residential area filled with actual peaceful protesters and media. Water cannons? Let them be and let innocent people get shot? Let more innocent business owners lose their livelihood?

 

Once again, everyone hates the police until they need them.

 

Were they shooting the ear plugs at them again?

[StrangeSox]

Were they shooting the ear plugs at them again?

that was pretty funny

[RockRaines]

Were they shooting the ear plugs at them again?

Last night there were no shots apparently. Previously they have only used bean bags or rubber.

[StrangeSox]

Last night there were no shots apparently. Previously they have only used bean bags or rubber.

he's referring to this:

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/h...f-1227029281902

 

[RockRaines]

he's referring to this:

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/h...f-1227029281902

 

LOL, didnt see that. I've never seen a rubber bullet so I would probably make the same mistake, I have seen a bean bag being shot and have also been in a group that got gassed.

[greg775]

It's cute you think those kids are thinking rationally enough to care about their job future.

 

When I was a teen I cared about my future and would not put myself in a position to get arrested like that. I'm middle class though. Maybe they are poor; who knows?

 

I'm glad somebody (NBC) finally checked on the cops stats. Actually 78 got arrested last night, not 35 like Ron Johnson said. Now they need to go to the hospitals and get condition reports on those shot and find out who they are and why they got shot.

You can't just blindly trust the police facts at 2 a.m. news briefings in the street.

 

They also interviewed a guy who explained how he got arrested last night. He said he was driving away from the scene and 20 cops pulled he and his people out of his car and stepped on them in the street and arrested them. He claims they were just trying to drive away after the gas warnings. Hmmmm.

Edited August 19, 2014 by greg775

[witesoxfan]

Rubber bullets are virtually the same thing as real bullets, but instead of being metal (which pierce and tear), they are coated in rubber and not intended to penetrate the skin.

 

Per wikipedia:

 

Such "kinetic impact munitions" are meant to cause pain but not serious injury. They are expected to produce contusions, abrasions, and hematomas.[6] However, they may cause bone fractures, injuries to internal organs, or death. In a study of injuries in 90 patients injured by rubber bullets, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.[7]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullet

[StrangeSox]

I haven't seen a rubber bullet, but I have a bag of that exact earplug in my desk. They're about 3/4" long and are made from a very soft foam rubber.

[Kyyle23]

rubber or not, that s*** looks like it HURTS

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/f..._n_5678973.html

[RockRaines]

When I was a teen I cared about my future and would not put myself in a position to get arrested like that. I'm middle class though. Maybe they are poor; who knows?

 

I'm glad somebody (NBC) finally checked on the cops stats. Actually 78 got arrested last night, not 35 like Ron Johnson said. Now they need to go to the hospitals and get condition reports on those shot and find out who they are and why they got shot.

You can't just blindly trust the police facts at 2 a.m. news briefings in the street.

 

They also interviewed a guy who explained how he got arrested last night. He said he was driving away from the scene and 20 cops pulled he and his people out of his car and stepped on them in the street and arrested them. He claims they were just trying to drive away after the gas warnings. Hmmmm.

Can you post links?

[RockRaines]

rubber or not, that s*** looks like it HURTS

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/f..._n_5678973.html

I think they are supposed to hurt. Clearly longer lasting issues than tear gas though.

 

 

The video is the best part, shes trying to rationalize with a "protester" who is saying over and over he might as well disobey.

[witesoxfan]

I think people hear the phrase rubber bullet and think of like NERF guns, air-soft guns, BB guns, or pellet guns. That's not quite the case. They are typically non-lethal, though being hit in a prone area could definitely lead to something far more serious, but they are nothing to be messed with. I imagine it's a bit like being hit by a softball moving at 70-80 MPH.

[Jenksismyhero]

Reports coming out now that the officer suffered some fractures to his eye socket during the fight with Brown.

[Chisoxfn]

Here is what I don't understand. How were there all these bad reports and then it has taken this long for this information to come out. Seems like a lot of bad information started the process, followed by good info. If this info comes out 10 days ago, we don't have this situation. Again, not saying it is easy and investigations have to be done, but seems like there should have been pretty strong statements coming from the government denying reports, etc.

[LittleHurt05]

Here is what I don't understand. How were there all these bad reports and then it has taken this long for this information to come out. Seems like a lot of bad information started the process, followed by good info. If this info comes out 10 days ago, we don't have this situation. Again, not saying it is easy and investigations have to be done, but seems like there should have been pretty strong statements coming from the government denying reports, etc.

 

I think they were waiting until all witnesses were interviewed to try to keep their stories legit. If a witness hears a story in the press, that could change what they think they saw.

[Jenksismyhero]

Here is what I don't understand. How were there all these bad reports and then it has taken this long for this information to come out. Seems like a lot of bad information started the process, followed by good info. If this info comes out 10 days ago, we don't have this situation. Again, not saying it is easy and investigations have to be done, but seems like there should have been pretty strong statements coming from the government denying reports, etc.

 

Easy: the media. They are 100% to blame. Show up, shove microphones in people's faces, get "statements," report them as fact, and then get the country in a frenzy.

 

 

"No, we actually haven't seen it Tom, we're just reporting it."