Why the A's should trade for Adam Dunn

[caulfield12]

You can't really compare Danks and Dunn because:

 

1) Danks came to our team when he was very young and is considered part of the White Sox "family"

2) His brother is also on the team

3) 2008 Blackout Game memories still linger for some

4) The fact that Danks' lack of effectiveness can be blamed on his career-altering injury, vs. laziness or "not caring" or whatever people say about Dunn

5) The fact that expectations were so high that Dunn was the final piece when he was added in 2011, having gone through a season where Jim Thome being on the Twins made a huge difference not making them playoffs despite the 26-5 run in mid-2010.

6) The fact that Dunn's never made the playoffs

7) Dunn's 2011 was chronicle in the NY Times for its historic abysmal nature, whereas Danks criticism is about fastball velocity, location, homers surrendered, leaving balls out over the plate, peripherals....you just can't equate them when you talk about total flops and then take into consideration what we were being sold at the time by KW

Edited August 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Here's why Dunn will be traded and Danks won't be traded:

 

1) Dunn is a free agent after this year. Danks is not.

[Eminor3rd]

You can't really compare Danks and Dunn because:

 

1) Danks came to our team when he was very young and is considered part of the White Sox "family"

2) His brother is also on the team

3) 2008 Blackout Game memories still linger for some

4) The fact that Danks' lack of effectiveness can be blamed on his career-altering injury, vs. laziness or "not caring" or whatever people say about Dunn

5) The fact that expectations were so high that Dunn was the final piece when he was added in 2011, having gone through a season where Jim Thome being on the Twins made a huge difference not making them playoffs despite the 26-5 run in mid-2010.

6) The fact that Dunn's never made the playoffs

7) Dunn's 2011 was chronicle in the NY Times for its historic abysmal nature, whereas Danks criticism is about fastball velocity, location, homers surrendered, leaving balls out over the plate, peripherals....you just can't equate them when you talk about total flops and then take into consideration what we were being sold at the time by KW

 

Right, all of that has nothing to do with how well they play. It's fine, but everyone should be aware that they are hating on Dunn because they don't like him, not because of his performance. This is why witesoxfan has come off like a DUNN LOVER all the time when he isn't really -- it's just so confusing when everyone has wanted to "improve" the team by making the offense worse. You can have personal problems with a guy and want him gone, but let's acknowledge that is entirely separate from what our team should do in order to win.

[glangon]

The A's have optioned Dan Otero to AAA (one of their best relievers) because he has options, they haven't announced a corresponding move, a few Oakland writers suspect that its due to an incoming player acquired through a waiver trade.

 

Could it be Dunn?

[caulfield12]

Right, all of that has nothing to do with how well they play. It's fine, but everyone should be aware that they are hating on Dunn because they don't like him, not because of his performance. This is why witesoxfan has come off like a DUNN LOVER all the time when he isn't really -- it's just so confusing when everyone has wanted to "improve" the team by making the offense worse. You can have personal problems with a guy and want him gone, but let's acknowledge that is entirely separate from what our team should do in order to win.

 

That's pretty subjective.

 

What I mean is, sure, the odds of Andy Wilkins replacing Dunn's production are about 3-5% at best.

 

It's more the idea of moving on, getting past the Konerko/Dunn era (last player from 2005 remaining) and using those financial resources more wisely/effectively in the future.

 

If the question is can Wilkins and a platoon partner outproduce Dunn and Konerko?, probably not.

 

If the question is whether Rick Hahn can either trade for a better replacement or spend that $16 million or whatever more effectively than what Adam Dunn has produced in 2014, sure, and I would add there's not much hope for the future of the White Sox if you're skeptical on that front.

Edited August 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Right, all of that has nothing to do with how well they play. It's fine, but everyone should be aware that they are hating on Dunn because they don't like him, not because of his performance. This is why witesoxfan has come off like a DUNN LOVER all the time when he isn't really -- it's just so confusing when everyone has wanted to "improve" the team by making the offense worse. You can have personal problems with a guy and want him gone, but let's acknowledge that is entirely separate from what our team should do in order to win.

 

I am actually a Dunn lover though. He makes a fantastic big spoon.

[LittleHurt05]

The A's have optioned Dan Otero to AAA (one of their best relievers) because he has options, they haven't announced a corresponding move, a few Oakland writers suspect that its due to an incoming player acquired through a waiver trade.

 

Could it be Dunn?

 

Kyle Blanks & Craig Gentry are both on rehab assignments, so it could just be one of them being called back up from the DL.

[hogan873]

What do u mean? People on this board despise Danks (as a pitcher, not a human being), at least the majority do.

I disagree. Most of us are disappointed, but we're also aware that he suffered a major injury and has had to change his approach. However, I would think that most posters would be okay with a Danks trade that resulted in a middlin' prospect and a bunch of salary relief.

[shysocks]

I would prefer Noesi regardless of costs.

I see Danks as #6 or 7 or bullpen if this team is a contender.

You are going to be disappointed.

[Eminor3rd]

That's pretty subjective.

 

What I mean is, sure, the odds of Andy Wilkins replacing Dunn's production are about 3-5% at best.

 

It's more the idea of moving on, getting past the Konerko/Dunn era (last player from 2005 remaining) and using those financial resources more wisely/effectively in the future.

 

If the question is can Wilkins and a platoon partner outproduce Dunn and Konerko?, probably not.

 

If the question is whether Rick Hahn can either trade for a better replacement or spend that $16 million or whatever more effectively than what Adam Dunn has produced in 2014, sure, and I would add there's not much hope for the future of the White Sox if you're skeptical on that front.

 

It's not subjective, though. That's the thing. He's been an above average hitter for the last three seasons, and most of this board (and I'd wager most of the casual fans as well) has wanted his head the whole time. He unquestionably hasn't reach the heights we expected when he signed, but if we're being objective, he's been a key contributor to our offense and there haven't been any better options to replace him. Subjective would be how the initial hype of his signing has caused fans to consider him among the absolute biggest negatives on the team during his tenure, to be excised at all costs, despite the fact that he's been an above average hitter and is, by all accounts, a positive clubhouse presence.

 

Look, I'm disappointed with him too -- I LOVED the signing, fresh off the Mark Kotsay debacle. But I'm glad our front office hasn't let that emotion cloud their decision-making. Disappointment or not, the offense has been better the past three seasons because he's been here.

[glangon]

Kyle Blanks & Craig Gentry are both on rehab assignments, so it could just be one of them being called back up from the DL.

 

It could be, but why would you option Otero for a week when Gentry only went on his rehab assignment on 18th August and Blanks went on his on 9th August? Both still have time left on their rehab assignments and no offense to Blanks or Gentry but you wouldn't send Otero down for either of them.

 

It could be an interesting few hours ahead. Pack your bags Andy Wilkins and get to New York...

[caulfield12]

It's not subjective, though. That's the thing. He's been an above average hitter for the last three seasons, and most of this board (and I'd wager most of the casual fans as well) has wanted his head the whole time. He unquestionably hasn't reach the heights we expected when he signed, but if we're being objective, he's been a key contributor to our offense and there haven't been any better options to replace him. Subjective would be how the initial hype of his signing has caused fans to consider him among the absolute biggest negatives on the team during his tenure, to be excised at all costs, despite the fact that he's been an above average hitter and is, by all accounts, a positive clubhouse presence.

 

Look, I'm disappointed with him too -- I LOVED the signing, fresh off the Mark Kotsay debacle. But I'm glad our front office hasn't let that emotion cloud their decision-making. Disappointment or not, the offense has been better the past three seasons because he's been here.

 

 

I'm still not going to believe any statistical measure that simply equates his OPS numbers with being a fair value and level of performance for that contract.

 

WAR certainly wouldn't, as it favors effective middle infielders, 3B, catchers and CFers.

 

We can say statistically from 2012-2014, he's provided a pretty decent level of output, maybe 50-100 OPS points below what we expected when he was signed.

 

If he was putting up David Ortiz numbers these past three years DESPITE 2011, then all would be forgiven. But he's not. If he was putting up his average numbers from 2006-2010, everyone would be perfectly contented, since he would essentially be another version of Jim Thome.

 

Objectively, he doesn't deserve this level of criticism, but that's not how baseball works. Even then, there will be more allowances given for guys like Konerko/AJ/Buehrle or even Danks because of "sentimental" value. "Outsiders" like Alex Rios will rarely be embraced unless Sox fans feel they've earned it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I think in most of these cases people are frustrated with the existing player and subjected to back up QB syndrome with the next guy in line. Andy Wilkins has zero chance of "replacing" Adam Dunn.

[Kyyle23]

You can't really compare Danks and Dunn because:

 

1) Danks came to our team when he was very young and is considered part of the White Sox "family"

2) His brother is also on the team

3) 2008 Blackout Game memories still linger for some

4) The fact that Danks' lack of effectiveness can be blamed on his career-altering injury, vs. laziness or "not caring" or whatever people say about Dunn

5) The fact that expectations were so high that Dunn was the final piece when he was added in 2011, having gone through a season where Jim Thome being on the Twins made a huge difference not making them playoffs despite the 26-5 run in mid-2010.

6) The fact that Dunn's never made the playoffs

7) Dunn's 2011 was chronicle in the NY Times for its historic abysmal nature, whereas Danks criticism is about fastball velocity, location, homers surrendered, leaving balls out over the plate, peripherals....you just can't equate them when you talk about total flops and then take into consideration what we were being sold at the time by KW

 

 

That's pretty subjective.

 

yes. yes it is

[greg775]

There's still some support on this board for Adam Dunn as being a productive ballplayer.

So let me ask you guys to grade his performance for his entire tenure as a White Sox. I would give Adam Dunn a D. I was tempted to go D-minus. So why in the heck would any team risk having him around in September if they have a chance to win anything of note?

[shysocks]

There's still some support on this board for Adam Dunn as being a productive ballplayer.

So let me ask you guys to grade his performance for his entire tenure as a White Sox. I would give Adam Dunn a D. I was tempted to go D-minus. So why in the heck would any team risk having him around in September if they have a chance to win anything of note?

Because what happened in 2011 isn't particularly relevant to this September.

[witesoxfan]

There's still some support on this board for Adam Dunn as being a productive ballplayer.

So let me ask you guys to grade his performance for his entire tenure as a White Sox. I would give Adam Dunn a D. I was tempted to go D-minus. So why in the heck would any team risk having him around in September if they have a chance to win anything of note?

 

I'm taking the troll bait on this one...why on earth would you give Dunn a D? List actual reasons. Do you look at statistics or know how on base percentage works? Have you looked at how the league has produced? Do you understand what a good hitter is in today's environment?

 

No objective person who knows anything about baseball would give Adam Dunn a D. This either means you are not objective or you know nothing about baseball, and I've seen that you have knowledge regarding the game of baseball.

 

And, while we're at it and giving out grades, what would your grade for Paul Konerko be this season? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS PAST. I'm talking about this season.

[LittleHurt05]

It could be, but why would you option Otero for a week when Gentry only went on his rehab assignment on 18th August and Blanks went on his on 9th August? Both still have time left on their rehab assignments and no offense to Blanks or Gentry but you wouldn't send Otero down for either of them.

 

It could be an interesting few hours ahead. Pack your bags Andy Wilkins and get to New York...

 

Craig Gentry has been reinstated from the disabled list, so much for that hope!

[Quin]

Greg grades = definitive assessment of players. Paulie gets an A as he would be thr league MVP if not blocked by Dunn and teaches everyone how to be awesome.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

We could only hope Dunn is traded to Oakland

[Dick Allen]

I'm taking the troll bait on this one...why on earth would you give Dunn a D? List actual reasons. Do you look at statistics or know how on base percentage works? Have you looked at how the league has produced? Do you understand what a good hitter is in today's environment?

 

No objective person who knows anything about baseball would give Adam Dunn a D. This either means you are not objective or you know nothing about baseball, and I've seen that you have knowledge regarding the game of baseball.

 

And, while we're at it and giving out grades, what would your grade for Paul Konerko be this season? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS PAST. I'm talking about this season.

Adam Dunn will have been paid $56 million for 4 years where he put up a collective -1.2 WAR. Giving him a D is being very kind.

 

Dunn seems like a good guy and a good teammate, and one guy who I have never seen loaf. I am not a member of his hater club, but face it, he was a bust.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

I'm taking the troll bait on this one...why on earth would you give Dunn a D? List actual reasons. Do you look at statistics or know how on base percentage works? Have you looked at how the league has produced? Do you understand what a good hitter is in today's environment?

 

No objective person who knows anything about baseball would give Adam Dunn a D. This either means you are not objective or you know nothing about baseball, and I've seen that you have knowledge regarding the game of baseball.

 

And, while we're at it and giving out grades, what would your grade for Paul Konerko be this season? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS PAST. I'm talking about this season.

 

First on Paul Konerko

I think you would agree it'd be fair to give him an incomplete with just 171 at bats. 22 RBI isn't exactly horrible, but considering his .234 average and .273 on base he probably would get a C-minus, maybe even a D. But again, I'd argue an incomplete would be more fair. He truly was just a figurehead this season. For his Sox career I'd give him an A.

 

As far as Dunn's grade of D to D- for his Sox career...

Tangibles: Well, he goes out with a whimper this year with his 412 plate appearances. He has 49 RBI and 19 HRs. Good on base percentage but batting average of .224.

He for his career had the 2011 season where he hit .159. I don't even know how that's possible. His on base was bad. The second year he hit .204 with 222 strikeouts. He did go for 41 hrs and 96 RBIs and had a .333 on base. That's a weird stat line. Obviously he was productive when he hit the ball.

His third year he hit .219, 34, 86 with a .320 on base.

In conclusion, he drew a lot of walks, struck out a ton, had two good home run years out of four. Upon studying all the facts I would probably give him a D instead of D-.

I guess a C- is possible considering modern baseball stat analysis would give him a lot of credit for all the walks and two out of four 'good' home run seasons is by definition, an average performance which lends itself more to a C-.

 

I would stick with a high D however because of his historically bad season the first year and all the whiffs. Not to mention the fact MOST of the time he refused to go with the pitch even though he proved he could hit it out to all fields.

I stick with D, but I would not freak if somebody gave him a C- I guess.

 

To those of you who would somehow give him a B for his SOX career, I ask you, are the walks he drew truly that important that he gets a B? Are you giving him a B for the two decent-to-good home run/RBI seasons? Do all the walks he drew make him a Sox success story (especially considering he's pretty slow?). I don't know how he could get anything above a C- based on the stats.

Edited August 22, 2014 by greg775

[Vance Law]

I'm still not going to believe any statistical measure that simply equates his OPS numbers with being a fair value and level of performance for that contract.

 

Look at every free agent signing ever. They are overpaid virtually 100% of the time. Free agent market is the convenience store. You overpay because you need it now.

 

 

His 4 year deal is not remotely the albatross that Soriano, A-Rod, Crawford, Howard, Pujols, Hamilton, and on and on

 

edit: Bonilla

Edited August 22, 2014 by Vance Law

[greg775]

Look at every free agent signing ever. They are overpaid virtually 100% of the time. Free agent market is the convenience store. You overpay because you need it now.

 

 

His 4 year deal is not remotely the albatross that Soriano, A-Rod, Crawford, Howard, Pujols, Hamilton, and on and on

 

edit: Bonilla

 

I don't know what Choo is getting paid but he's another bust. Teams will never learn.

[Vance Law]

I don't know what Choo is getting paid but he's another bust. Teams will never learn.

 

yep