Highlights.

 

-Thinks that payroll for 2015 will in the low $90's

-still looking for one or two more vet RP arms

-Sox could still show more interest in Ervin Santana/Melky Cabrera/David Robertson,

 

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/102...winter-meetings

Still would love to add Melky. I'm iffy on Ervin Santana.

The payroll is already at about $80M now, right? So he expects out payroll to remain the same as it was last season? I would have thought Hahn would add to the payroll.

The payroll is already at about $80M now, right? So he expects out payroll to remain the same as it was last season? I would have thought Hahn would add to the payroll.

I put us at about $63-$64 million if Arb was offered to Viciedo, which it was. Plus $12 million for Laroche and $4.5 million for Duke puts us at within error of $80 million.

Highlights.

 

-Thinks that payroll for 2015 will in the low $90's

-still looking for one or two more vet RP arms

-Sox could still show more interest in Ervin Santana/Melky Cabrera/David Robertson,

 

http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/102...winter-meetings

 

Merkin has extra time to write this winter, since he doesn't have a bowl game to go to.

Merkin has extra time to write this winter, since he doesn't have a bowl game to go to.

 

 

ND fan making fun of Michigan seems petty

I put us at about $63-$64 million if Arb was offered to Viciedo, which it was. Plus $12 million for Laroche and $4.5 million for Duke puts us at within error of $80 million.

 

$80 Million with how many players of the expected 25 man roster?

 

 

ND fan making fun of Michigan seems petty

Merkin is a pretty annoying fan so I get it.

 

I also do not think he is correct at the payroll number. I think they have more room than that, probably at least 10 million more.

Merkin is a pretty annoying fan so I get it.

 

I also do not think he is correct at the payroll number. I think they have more room than that, probably at least 10 million more.

 

There's no need to spend it just to spend it though.

The payroll is already at about $80M now, right? So he expects out payroll to remain the same as it was last season? I would have thought Hahn would add to the payroll.

 

Hayes said with arbitration and viciedo staying for now payroll being at about 72 million. That should be with the additions of duke and Laroche. Remember payroll was below 50 ish before arbitration and add in arbitration was up to about 56 ish. Add in Laroche 12 million and 4.5 for duke and at about 72 ish. Said maybe going up to 95 million maybe. http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_ty...x-after-laroche

Edited December 3, 201411 yr by WhiteSoxLifer

Highlights.

 

-Thinks that payroll for 2015 will in the low $90's

That's a pitiful payroll for a large market team. If that's correct and if it's mandated, it finally makes sense why the Sox would even entertain trading scarce prospects for 1 year players in areas of secondary need (although I still wouldn't do it).

 

Merkin is a pretty annoying fan so I get it.

 

I also do not think he is correct at the payroll number. I think they have more room than that, probably at least 10 million more.

One would think the payroll would be higher than $90M, if Kenny was serious about us looking at whatever this new roster turns out to be and us walking away "dreaming again" about postseason play. $90M is far less than the average MLB payroll has been for a few years, so I don't know how that number and "dreaming again" square up.

That's a pitiful payroll for a large market team. If that's correct and if it's mandated, it finally makes sense why the Sox would even entertain trading scarce prospects for 1 year players in areas of secondary need (although I still wouldn't do it).

 

We also have a pitiful fan base, so it fits.

Hayes said with arbitration and viciedo staying for now payroll being at about 72 million. That should be with the additions of duke and Laroche. Remember payroll was below 50 ish before arbitration and add in arbitration was up to about 56 ish. Add in Laroche 12 million and 4.5 for duke and at about 72 ish. Said maybe going up to 95 million maybe. http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_ty...x-after-laroche

 

He is leaving out that you have to have 25 players on a roster, and each of those is at least 500k.

That's a pitiful payroll for a large market team. If that's correct and if it's mandated, it finally makes sense why the Sox would even entertain trading scarce prospects for 1 year players in areas of secondary need (although I still wouldn't do it).

 

There are no pieces on the market right now that warrant the Sox overspending to get them because they will put the Sox over the top. The Sox have been very wise with their decision making and fiscal responsibility thus far, and when the time comes, the Sox will be able to open the purse strings a little bit.

 

This team had a $120 or so million payroll not that long ago. They can open the pocketbook, but for a retooling team, spending a boatload of money early on isn't really necessary.

We also have a pitiful fan base, so it fits.

A fan base that merely reflects the results of an ownership group who, in 34 years of their stewardship now, have all of one World Series appearance to brag about, with just four other rather non-memorable trips to the postseason. Four wins in those four trips, btw. Is it surprising to you then that we have neither a bigger fan base nor an energized one with the one we've got?

A fan base that merely reflects the results of an ownership group who, in 34 years of their stewardship now, have all of one World Series appearance to brag about, with just four other rather non-memorable trips to the postseason. Four wins in those four trips, btw. Is it surprising to you then that we have neither a bigger fan base nor an energized one with the one we've got?

 

Then please explain to me why the Cubs draw well. They've had an even worse situation and yet they've never had any problem drawing fans.

Then please explain to me why the Cubs draw well. They've had an even worse situation and yet they've never had any problem drawing fans.

 

I don't know man, he makes some valid points. Hard to rouse a fanbase with such limited success. Ya the Cubs have been historically awful, but they've always had exposure far and wide with WGN and they sold that image of classic baseball in America playing in that s***hole of a stadium. People wanna root for underdogs and the Cubs have been underdogs for a long time. That stadium use to be pretty empty itself in the 70's and 80's. As we've seen with the Blackhawks, winning and winning frequently can turn around the fortunes of a franchise quickly.

Edited December 3, 201411 yr by Dunt

A fan base that merely reflects the results of an ownership group who, in 34 years of their stewardship now, have all of one World Series appearance to brag about, with just four other rather non-memorable trips to the postseason. Four wins in those four trips, btw. Is it surprising to you then that we have neither a bigger fan base nor an energized one with the one we've got?

 

Spin it like you want to. If fans don't go to games, they don't get to complain about the payroll.

There are no pieces on the market right now that warrant the Sox overspending to get them because they will put the Sox over the top. The Sox have been very wise with their decision making and fiscal responsibility thus far, and when the time comes, the Sox will be able to open the purse strings a little bit.

 

This team had a $120 or so million payroll not that long ago. They can open the pocketbook, but for a retooling team, spending a boatload of money early on isn't really necessary.

They've also lost a lot of ticket sales since they last had that payroll. Last time they started a season with a payroll close to $120 they sold of >$10 million in salaries during the year and then cut payroll by another $20 million beyond that the next offseason.

Then please explain to me why the Cubs draw well. They've had an even worse situation and yet they've never had any problem drawing fans.

That's an easy one. "Their" stewardship, while no great shakes, did manage to brilliantly maximize the talents of Harry Caray back in the '80s, along with providing them maximum exposure on free TV, which cultivated an entire generation of fans drawn to Caray and that little ballpark that he sold to the fans on a daily basis. So powerful was his draw and the way he sold the Wrigley experience that the effects remain to this very day. Our ownership group? After year one, they both got rid of Caray and took the Sox off free tv, and in my opinion, this organization has never really fully recovered from that.

 

They've had their chances to recover either through fielding a winning team consistently, which they haven't, or by building a stadium with an experience that fans wouldn't want to miss. They blew that chance, big time, with the design of the new Comiskey Park. And while the renovations have been quite nice, in and of themselves they haven't been able to wake up the base. But it's this lack of winning that is the root cause of most of the attendance issues.

I don't know man, he makes some valid points. Hard to rouse a fanbase with such limited success. Ya the Cubs have been historically awful, but they've always had exposure far and wide with WGN and they sold that image of classic baseball in America playing in that s***hole of a stadium. People wanna root for underdogs and the Cubs have been underdogs for a long time. That stadium use to be pretty empty itself in the 70's and 80's.

 

People want to root for underdogs, yet I don't see people flocking to see the Athletics. The Kansas City Royals won 86 games in 2013, hosted the All-Star game in 2014, and then won a Wild Card spot as well and they were 11th. I'm sure that'll rise next year, but placing blame on one thing or another is short-sighted and wrong. There is plenty of blame to be shared for the White Sox attendance problems (which are not nearly as serious of a problem as some people make it out to be, but you need people to attend the game).

That's an easy one. "Their" stewardship, while no great shakes, did manage to brilliantly maximize the talents of Harry Caray back in the '80s, along with providing them maximum exposure on free TV, which cultivated an entire generation of fans drawn to Caray and that little ballpark that he sold to the fans on a daily basis. So powerful was his draw and the way he sold the Wrigley experience that the effects remain to this very day. Our ownership group? After year one, they both got rid of Caray and took the Sox off free tv, and in my opinion, this organization has never really fully recovered from that.

 

They've had their chances to recover either through fielding a winning team consistently, which they haven't, or by building a stadium with an experience that fans wouldn't want to miss. They blew that chance, big time, with the design of the new Comiskey Park. And while the renovations have been quite nice, in and of themselves they haven't been able to wake up the base. But it's this lack of winning that is the root cause of most of the attendance issues.

 

All we need is a White Flag mention now.

Spin it like you want to. If fans don't go to games, they don't get to complain about the payroll.

I'm not spinning anything, just looking at reality. The results of recent years, the results of the collective 34 years of this ownership group, do not translate to having a big and fervent season ticket base. It's that simple. Look at the spike in attendance after we won in '05. There was a waiting list for season tickets, for crying out loud. Had the team been able to maintain that momentum and go on any kind of a run for a few years after that, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they didn't, mediocrity (at best) returned, and the interest of the fans dwindled correspondingly. Now you, you can choose to spin the problem by blaming the fans. I think that blame is misplaced. I blame it on the provider of the product and their consistent inability to field a team that the fans can get excited about.

All we need is a White Flag mention now.

It's not on par with the Harry Caray/Sportsvision/flawed Comiskey Park design debacles, but it's part of a long laundry list of things that have happened over the past 34 years which have contributed to the alienation of the fans.

Edited December 4, 201411 yr by Thad Bosley