Quin Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ May 26, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) you make an excellent point, let me add this, every team needs that special, lets say, special player, a spark to get the team to be in the same page. if the sox blows up the team, misses out by trade that spark in Sale, Abreu, Robertson, who knows who will step up to take on that leadership role. Basically what happens is the entire future of the White Sox would hinge on Garcia and Rodon becoming immediate leaders because of the remaining players, Beckham is the only one I'd see with leadership qualities/veteran presence and that's not gonna work out. You'd have this (not accounting for influx of prospects) Rodon Danks Noesi Carroll Beck Bullpen - clusterf*** of assorted arms 1B - Conor 2B - Johnson SS - Sanchez 3B - Beckham LF - Coats/Saladino CF - Thompson RF - Garcia C - Whatever corpse you want to bring up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ May 26, 2015 -> 10:41 AM) This isn't going to happen. If they continue to suck, they'll trade Samardzija and/or Alexei. Maybe Beckham or Bonifacio next to nothing. The team is still going to be expecting to compete next year. Oh, I know. I'm saying that is what will happen if they trade everyone like some are saying. At most they trade Samardzjia and Alexei. But people want to trade off all the offseason acquisitions in which case it all gets blown up. I call this the Greg Scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 26, 2015 -> 03:36 PM) Basically what happens is the entire future of the White Sox would hinge on Garcia and Rodon becoming immediate leaders because of the remaining players, Beckham is the only one I'd see with leadership qualities/veteran presence and that's not gonna work out. You'd have this (not accounting for influx of prospects) Rodon Danks Noesi Carroll Beck Bullpen - clusterf*** of assorted arms 1B - Conor 2B - Johnson SS - Sanchez 3B - Beckham LF - Coats/Saladino CF - Thompson RF - Garcia C - Whatever corpse you want to bring up. you and rabbitt make an excellent point esp with visual references. does anyone can see those players trying to carry this team in a playoff???? come on, the sox need to add 1 or 2 extra pitcher, and a catcher. this team has the freaking horses to carry this team in the post season. dang it, can't everyone see that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ May 26, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) you and rabbitt make an excellent point esp with visual references. does anyone can see those players trying to carry this team in a playoff???? come on, the sox need to add 1 or 2 extra pitcher, and a catcher. this team has the freaking horses to carry this team in the post season. dang it, can't everyone see that! i think i may have screwed up. i am a diehard sox fan, and i sometimes get a little too passionate about the sox's. so if i offended anyone, pls accept my apologizes i didn't mean it to be personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I think there is an important question. This looks like a .500 team which many of us predicted. But there were other fans who projected 90 wins and are now ranting about everything being wrong. I think the big question is Robin. How big of a problem is he and his staff. If Robin is a big problem then you make minor moves and maybe Shark gets moved since he would be gone anyway. Maybe LaRoche can also be moved but probably as a salary dump with little return. You can't trade Alexei because you probably don't have an adequate replacement. If you want a catcher, the only tradeable assets are probably pitching i.e Q?? But that opens another hole. If Robin is not the main problem, then you need to blow up some more of the roster and continue the rebuild shooting for 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 26, 2015 -> 01:53 PM) I think there is an important question. This looks like a .500 team which many of us predicted. But there were other fans who projected 90 wins and are now ranting about everything being wrong. I think the big question is Robin. How big of a problem is he and his staff. If Robin is a big problem then you make minor moves and maybe Shark gets moved since he would be gone anyway. Maybe LaRoche can also be moved but probably as a salary dump with little return. You can't trade Alexei because you probably don't have an adequate replacement. If you want a catcher, the only tradeable assets are probably pitching i.e Q?? But that opens another hole. If Robin is not the main problem, then you need to blow up some more of the roster and continue the rebuild shooting for 2017. There are currently 5 teams in the AL that are closer to .500 (but still under) than the White Sox. If this were a .500 team right now, or if they get there by ~mid June, then filling in the holes could push them into wild card consideration legitimately. They need to dig themselves out of a 4 game hole in the next month to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 26, 2015 -> 05:53 PM) I think there is an important question. This looks like a .500 team which many of us predicted. But there were other fans who projected 90 wins and are now ranting about everything being wrong. I think the big question is Robin. How big of a problem is he and his staff. If Robin is a big problem then you make minor moves and maybe Shark gets moved since he would be gone anyway. Maybe LaRoche can also be moved but probably as a salary dump with little return. You can't trade Alexei because you probably don't have an adequate replacement. If you want a catcher, the only tradeable assets are probably pitching i.e Q?? But that opens another hole. If Robin is not the main problem, then you need to blow up some more of the roster and continue the rebuild shooting for 2017. yeah i am one who thought this team is a 90 winner. the thing is, you have several problems in play. so with the proverbial domino effect, the sox didn't finish addressing the needs of the team. next comes the injury to sale. and without a viable replacement, help started the downfall. lack of hitting and as many have said, RV not coming to the front in certain game situations. fo coming forth, to the press to defend RV. ets...... the point is can you blow up the team?? yes. is it wise?? no what will be the easy to do?? fire the manager. whether he deserves it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 26, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) I think there is an important question. This looks like a .500 team which many of us predicted. But there were other fans who projected 90 wins and are now ranting about everything being wrong. I think the big question is Robin. How big of a problem is he and his staff. If Robin is a big problem then you make minor moves and maybe Shark gets moved since he would be gone anyway. Maybe LaRoche can also be moved but probably as a salary dump with little return. You can't trade Alexei because you probably don't have an adequate replacement. If you want a catcher, the only tradeable assets are probably pitching i.e Q?? But that opens another hole. If Robin is not the main problem, then you need to blow up some more of the roster and continue the rebuild shooting for 2017. Do people believe there would be a 8-10 game difference (81-81 to 90-72) if the White Sox had a different manager? I'm not really a Ventura supporter; he got this position with no experience and because he was a former White Sox player. That sort of tells me the value the team places in a manager. The biggest issues remain even after the off-season where some of these issues were thought to have been addressed. They have received little production or less than anticipated at C, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF and DH. The end of the rotation is as bad as expected and even the front-line guys have been spotty at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (spiderman @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) Do people believe there would be a 8-10 game difference (81-81 to 90-72) if the White Sox had a different manager? I'm not really a Ventura supporter; he got this position with no experience and because he was a former White Sox player. That sort of tells me the value the team places in a manager. The biggest issues remain even after the off-season where some of these issues were thought to have been addressed. They have received little production or less than anticipated at C, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF and DH. The end of the rotation is as bad as expected and even the front-line guys have been spotty at times. Here's the question. We've got >10 major positions that are underperforming. LF, CF, 1B (i don't know why you didn't include that), 3b, SS, 3 starting pitchers, 2b, and C, in addition to the weak bench spots. That's not the way its supposed to work. Some guys are supposed to get better, other guys are not. You're not supposed to have 90% of the starting lineup of a team dramatically underperform just by random chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2015 -> 06:09 PM) Here's the question. We've got >10 major positions that are underperforming. LF, CF, 1B (i don't know why you didn't include that), 3b, SS, 3 starting pitchers, 2b, and C, in addition to the weak bench spots. That's not the way its supposed to work. Some guys are supposed to get better, other guys are not. You're not supposed to have 90% of the starting lineup of a team dramatically underperform just by random chance. a very good point. but lets use a visualization to demonstrate this point. how many of this current team players are batting over 270, 240??? now answer this, why??? if someone is going to mention who, then answer why that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I am starting to think the team just doesn't buy into Ventura. How else can you explain the lackadaisical performances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 26, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) I am starting to think the team just doesn't buy into Ventura. How else can you explain the lackadaisical performances? We saw the same stuff with Ozzie at the helm. Remember Corpseball being the favored term around here? Now Ozzie gets almost as big of a round of applause as Paulie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) We saw the same stuff with Ozzie at the helm. Remember Corpseball being the favored term around here? Now Ozzie gets almost as big of a round of applause as Paulie. 2005 will probably get him applause for a long time at this f***ing rate. I don't think the team should replace RV with Ozzie but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) 2005 will probably get him applause for a long time at this f***ing rate. I don't think the team should replace RV with Ozzie but... Corpseball was after 2005. Now apparently people have forgotten about that kind of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2015 -> 03:41 PM) Corpseball was after 2005. Now apparently people have forgotten about that kind of stuff. This. Team. Is. Dead. Still feels accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Jerry Manual was the Grim Reaper in charge of corpseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 26, 2015 -> 07:49 PM) I am starting to think the team just doesn't buy into Ventura. How else can you explain the lackadaisical performances? b/c $$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This team has so much more talent (on paper) then the 2012 team. That's why people are upset. That team was held together with duct tape and wire and depends for the all the veterans. This team was supposed to compete and right now they aren't competing. They have the worst differential in the AL. That's unacceptable. I'd have fired RV weeks ago but you all know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 26, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) This team has so much more talent (on paper) then the 2012 team. That's why people are upset. That team was held together with duct tape and wire and depends for the all the veterans. This team was supposed to compete and right now they aren't competing. They have the worst differential in the AL. That's unacceptable. I'd have fired RV weeks ago but you all know that. whether i agree or not is not my answer. i am thinking, if they, the fo did contemplate firing RV, normally during a season, one is not going to find a replacement manager. if anything an interim it would be. so who?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I would love for the Sox to pursue Todd Frazier and would be ok with them going hard for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) Jerry Manual was the Grim Reaper in charge of corpseball. He was the meddler. People hated how he always switched up the line up. Now they complain if the line up isn't switch up all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) I would love for the Sox to pursue Todd Frazier and would be ok with them going hard for him. Funny, I just opened this thread with the purpose of posting the exact same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) Funny, I just opened this thread with the purpose of posting the exact same thing. and posters were talking about the nl vs al players. my question would be, what will be the cost be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 1, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) and posters were talking about the nl vs al players. my question would be, what will be the cost be. A boatload Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I wonder what LeMahieu from Colorado would cost once they are further out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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