LDF Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:06 PM) The Mariners comp is a pretty good one... Held onto aging star players too long (Ichiro is the best example) without getting anything back in return. Got desperate and dealt their best prospect (Adam Jones) for an absolute bust in Bedard. Developed a pitching staff in Hernandez, Iwakuma, Paxton, Walker that looked playoff ready...with Paxton/Walker representing Rodon and Fulmer. Almost all of their young prospects busted (Smoak, Montero, Zunino and Ackley are both getting there, Ackley in particular)... Filled in with free agent half measures like Logan Morrison, Corey Hart, Kendrys Morales (see White Sox 2011-2015). They have come up with Seager and Adam Jones, much better than anything we've managed on the position side. On the other hand, they have the Seattle market all to themselves, a better stadium (albeit not a good one for offense) and the early benefit of the $100-125 million added television/broadcast rights windfalls that we might not even receive in 2019. They have done better with FA's (Cano last year, Cruz this year) but also missed a lot (see list above, and Adrian Beltre for most of his M's career). The false positive from last year, competing until the final week...pushed them into the Cruz deal this year, which will really start to weigh down the payroll, along with Felix and Cano. nice work in assembling all this info. oh, btw....... but i don't agree. Edited June 30, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) nice work in assembling all this info. oh, btw....... but i don't agree. That's where pitching is incredibly difficult to project. Last August or early September, you could have argued Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, T.Walker and Chris Young (Comeback Player of Year who they let go to KC) was one of the best in the game, and could/should be a building block. 9 months later, Iwakuma has disappeared almost (will be a FA like Samardzija), and Walker/Paxton went through typical albeit perhaps unexpected growing pains. They're close in the same sense we are...they have some very nice pieces, but they're not competing for the moment and their window is already closing in on them as Cano, Cruz and Felix all age. Edited June 30, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:31 PM) That's where pitching is incredibly difficult to project. Last August or early September, you could have argued Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, T.Walker and Chris Young (Comeback Player of Year who they let go to KC) was one of the best in the game, and could/should be a building block. 9 months later, Iwakuma has disappeared almost (will be a FA like Samardzija), and Walker/Paxton went through typical albeit perhaps unexpected growing pains. They're close in the same sense we are...they have some very nice pieces, but they're not competing for the moment and their window is already closing in on them as Cano, Cruz and Felix all age. the burdensome problem i have issue with, it i would like to think Sea had a better GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 04:36 PM) the burdensome problem i have issue with, it i would like to think Sea had a better GM. Mariners fans are still living in the past glory days of Griffey, Jr., the Big Unit, Buhner, Edgar and Ichiro...1993-2003. They're still blaming ownership for trading away Adam Jones. There's no love for Jack Z, they haven't reached the playoffs under any of his numerous plans (for 2-3 years, he was obsessed with OF defense, guys like Endy Chavez and F. Gutierrez). I would be surprised if he's even GM next year. Willie Bloomquist would definitely be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:50 PM) Mariners fans are still living in the past glory days of Griffey, Jr., the Big Unit, Buhner, Edgar and Ichiro...1993-2003. They're still blaming ownership for trading away Adam Jones. There's no love for Jack Z, they haven't reached the playoffs under any of his numerous plans (for 2-3 years, he was obsessed with OF defense, guys like Endy Chavez and F. Gutierrez). I would be surprised if he's even GM next year. Willie Bloomquist would definitely be surprised. ok, i will owned up. my bias against KW made me say this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 So to sum up thread, re-hire Ozzie Guillen, hire Hawk as GM, trade Chris Sale. That will make going cold-turkey off the Sox reeeealy easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 12:37 AM) So to sum up thread, re-hire Ozzie Guillen, hire Hawk as GM, trade Chris Sale. That will make going cold-turkey off the Sox reeeealy easy. i just can't believe all the rehire Ozzie talk. it just amazes me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 06:59 PM) i just can't believe all the rehire Ozzie talk. it just amazes me on that. I expect it from greg, but everyone else... ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 03:46 PM) I heard another Steve Stone say he had no desire to do this. He likes what he's doing now. For most of his post-playing days, he has actually publicly mentioned on many occasions his desire to be a GM someday. I think it's only been in the past year or so that he's suggested the time for him to do so has now past, given his age (coming up on 68). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 01:24 AM) For most of his post-playing days, he has actually publicly mentioned on many occasions his desire to be a GM someday. I think it's only been in the past year or so that he's suggested the time for him to do so has now past, given his age (coming up on 68). you may be right, that is why i am tempted to say something, but also state this is my opinion. do you think he would not say anything else, complicating the situation with the sox. not causing any other outside problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Robin is good material for some kind of coach... just not the main guy. It was a failure of an idea.. it happens. But re-tread Ozzie ain't ever happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/angels-offici...&soc_trk=ma Looks like Scioscia might soon be available... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 05:12 AM) Robin is good material for some kind of coach... just not the main guy. It was a failure of an idea.. it happens. But re-tread Ozzie ain't ever happening. thank you, thank you and btw thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 05:52 AM) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/angels-offici...&soc_trk=ma Looks like Scioscia might soon be available... or the gm,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp...0701-story.html Now it looks like DiPoto is out as GM instead...crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 11:05 AM) http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp...0701-story.html Now it looks like DiPoto is out as GM instead...crazy. well i wasn't surprise at that move. DiPoto was stupid to force the hand of the owner. did he really thought he was more important to the club than one of the better managers in the game. hasn't he seen the revolving door the past several weeks of managers being relieved from their position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Remember Terry Francona was available when we hired a tee-ball coach hanging out in Malibu? Well what the f***? KW really wanted PK over Terry? He's a problem too, the organization is dysfunctional, not as bad, but just like the New York Jets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Remember Terry Francona was available when we hired a tee-ball coach hanging out in Malibu? Well what the f***? KW really wanted PK over Terry? He's a problem too, the organization is dysfunctional, not as bad, but just like the New York Jets The same guy who is managing the team SI picked to win the WS and is 1.5 games ahead of the White Sox? Yeah, the Sox would be leading the division by 10 games if they hired him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 His winning percentage is 80 points better and he's has a playoff appearance with the Indians, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) His winning percentage is 80 points better and he's has a playoff appearance with the Indians, though. How many games do you think the Sox would be ahead of the Indians if they were able to trade managers? 15? 20? It's funny, I read on here the Sox have no future. Almost all their players suck, their prospects suck, their payroll is maxed out...Yet, I also read where apparently if someone else was managing, none of this would be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 08:22 AM) How many games do you think the Sox would be ahead of the Indians if they were able to trade managers? 15? 20? It's funny, I read on here the Sox have no future. Almost all their players suck, their prospects suck, their payroll is maxed out...Yet, I also read where apparently if someone else was managing, none of this would be true. Ummm...should we have a poll with nine other managers along with Robin and you can see how few besides yourself (Greg will pick Ozzie) would have the best record since 2012 if they had been managing the same exact White Sox rosters from that point until July 1st, 2015? Tell us who you think would have a worse record and why? Sandberg? Ozzie? Who else? Buddy Bell? Joey Cora? Jim Fregosi? Davey Johnson? Valentine? Washington? Remember, Francona also has White Sox ties, back to the Barons' team with Michael Jordan two decades ago. 2-4 games per season is the difference between making the playoffs and just missing out most years. Edited July 1, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) Ummm...should we have a poll with nine other managers along with Robin and you can see how few besides yourself (Greg will pick Ozzie) would have the best record since 2012 if they had been managing the same exact White Sox rosters from that point until July 1st, 2015? Tell us who you think would have a worse record and why? Sandberg? Ozzie? Who else? Buddy Bell? Joey Cora? Jim Fregosi? Davey Johnson? Valentine? Washington? Remember, Francona also has White Sox ties, back to the Barons' team with Michael Jordan two decades ago. 2-4 games per season is the difference between making the playoffs and just missing out most years. Im sure that poll would be very accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Im sure that poll would be very accurate ...and historical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 08:48 AM) Ummm...should we have a poll with nine other managers along with Robin and you can see how few besides yourself (Greg will pick Ozzie) would have the best record since 2012 if they had been managing the same exact White Sox rosters from that point until July 1st, 2015? Tell us who you think would have a worse record and why? Sandberg? Ozzie? Who else? Buddy Bell? Joey Cora? Jim Fregosi? Davey Johnson? Valentine? Washington? Remember, Francona also has White Sox ties, back to the Barons' team with Michael Jordan two decades ago. 2-4 games per season is the difference between making the playoffs and just missing out most years. Remember when RV was such a breath of fresh air in his first season? How all the extra infield practice made a fundamentally sound team? What happened? Did he get worse on purpose? Or was he really the cause of the improvement in the first place? If not, how can we be so sure he's the problem now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Which is more likely, Terry Francona will be in the HoF for managing, or Robin Ventura? Wait, I know. If Robin had the same teams as LaRussa, Torre and Cox, he would surely be without peer in managerial renown compared to that formidable triumvirate. If you go by pythagorean (hello Phil Rogers), he is the best manager in the AL and Bob Melvin is far and away the worst (+5 vs -10). Gibbons in TOR would be second worst (-7). Mattingly is the worst at -4 in the NL, and Magician Joe Maddon is only at +1 with all those lucky or fluke wins. Buck Showalter, -3, not such a genius. Lloyd McClendon, +3, another candidate for an extension. Give everyone contract extensions with all that overachieving!!! If Ventura gets away to another team much closer to home, surely he will take the Angels to the World Series and beyond. Edited July 1, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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