August 18, 201510 yr Michael Dendor @MichaelDendor 34m34 minutes ago @MattSpiegel670 Rodon with Flowers starting: 2.80 ERA in 75 innings Rodon with Soto starting: 9.12 ERA in 25 innings
August 18, 201510 yr We need to get the machine from The Fly and put Soto and Flowers in together so they come out as one complete player
August 18, 201510 yr QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) Unfortunately, this will somehow be used to validate keeping him next season. I am no Flowers fan, albeit a little less adamant he needs to go than others, as I think he would be fine as a back up, but if the numbers were legit, and not just a sample size issue, that would be plenty of validation to keep him.
August 18, 201510 yr Author CERA for Sox leading IP. Chris Sale Flowers 3.32 Soto- hasn't caught him Samardjiza Flowers 7.50 -> 6 IP Soto 4.68 -> 157.2 IP Quintana Flowers 3.85 -> 133.1 IP Soto 2.18 -> 20.2 IP Danks Flowers 3.72 ->92 IP Soto 6.81 -> 35.2 IP Rodon Flowers 2.80 ->74 IP Soto 9.12 -> 25.2 IP Robertson Flowers 3.54 -> 28 IP Soto 1.89 -> 19 IP Duke Flowers 5.04 -> 30.1 IP Soto 1.10 -> 16.1 IP Petricka Flowers 3.41 -> 31.2 IP Soto 3.00 ->9 IP Putnam Flowers 3.24 ->25 IP Soto 2.57 ->14 IP
August 18, 201510 yr Hard to make any real conclusions from those stats... Looks like an exercise in randomness.
August 18, 201510 yr QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Hard to make any real conclusions from those stats... Looks like an exercise in randomness. There has to be a little to pitchers being better with certain catchers, but it's hard to imagine it's 2-7 runs a game.
August 18, 201510 yr QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) There has to be a little to pitchers being better with certain catchers, but it's hard to imagine it's 2-7 runs a game. Yeah there is something there... but how it could be quantified to make any decisions; hard to imagine. I would agree that Flowers (though these stats don't show this in every case) is a better manager of pitchers. How much or if it really is significant is another matter (though the coaches seem to believe it).
August 18, 201510 yr It is random, but i've seen rodon's explosions all with Soto. Each time he was calling an odd number of fastballs. For example, vs. Yankees, Rodon actually started attacking with the fastball and getting 2 strikes to batters. They started hitting it hard, and he kept calling for fastballs. Predictably rodon started to try and throw away and got wild. Flowers has had a nice mix of changeups and sliders with Rodon. On the other hand, Rodon's slider command may have been terrible in the bullpen and they did this with Soto to compensate.
August 18, 201510 yr Said this in the game thread yesterday, but I wouldn't mind seeing Flowers catch Shark and see if he pitches like he'd capable of..
August 18, 201510 yr I would think the odds are in favor of Flowers. He's caught more games and probably knows the hitters better. How did a ROY like Soto fall so fast? Maybe it's a Chicago curse.
August 18, 201510 yr QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 18, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Hard to make any real conclusions from those stats... Looks like an exercise in randomness. Yes, and people are being fooled by randomness. We want to assign narratives to everything. CERA is useless it has zero predictive value.
August 18, 201510 yr Flowers is underappreciated. We've got a guy who has been one of the best framers in the game this year, by all accounts handles the staff very well, and can run into one every once in a while. Look at the catchers around the majors. Flowers is a major league catcher and is far from this team's most pressing issue.
August 18, 201510 yr Flowers would be fine if he was more hidden in the line up, meaning consistency from Sanchez and Avi is situations.
August 18, 201510 yr Therein lies the problem. Flowers would be tolerable if he at least made better contact in key situations. If we're going to continue to play him as well as Micah, Sanchez, Saladino, Thompson and Avi, then we are rebuilding (whether KW will admit it or not) and punting on 2016. I wonder if Tyler was in the same position as Brian Anderson in 2006 (breaking in as a rookie on a team expected to be in the playoffs) how long he would have lasted before being discarded?
August 28, 201510 yr Author Christopher Kamka @ckamka In Carlos Rodon's last 6 starts with Flowers catching: 1.11 ERA, 40.2 IP, 24 Hits, 44/17 K/BB
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