With them getting a comp pick where they are going to get them I can understand why there were some here that were saying it would have been better to get any low level prospect from anyone in a trade last season. Clearly there is a lot of value in getting a pick sandwiched between the first two rounds...like a lot of value.

It's nice, but it remains inaccurate to call it "a lot of value" IMO. If you nail it the pick can be great, but the average pick is still ~2 WAR for their career in the sandwich round and that means the median is even less than that.

With them getting a comp pick where they are going to get them I can understand why there were some here that were saying it would have been better to get any low level prospect from anyone in a trade last season. Clearly there is a lot of value in getting a pick sandwiched between the first two rounds...like a lot of value.

 

Sure, but historically the odds of getting a career war even close to what the four players we traded isn't going to be more than a 5-10% probability.

 

Not to mention the fact that aforementioned player will be arriving after our new media rights negotiations if he's a high schooler. Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Rodon and Eaton could all be gone by then.

 

Remember, 2017 is supposed to be Year 3 of the current action plan.

With them getting a comp pick where they are going to get them I can understand why there were some here that were saying it would have been better to get any low level prospect from anyone in a trade last season. Clearly there is a lot of value in getting a pick sandwiched between the first two rounds...like a lot of value.

And while the habitual whiners who complain that when the Sox regularly drafted lower, they drafted crap, but now tell you that the draft position historically brings you crap, may even have a point, there is a couple of million in slot money that can be maneuvered.

See what happens as it wasn't unexpected. I am more interested is what we can work out with Alexei Ramirez

Here we go again.

 

Can we ever have a conversation without feeling the need to insult someone (basically the majority of the site)?

 

Why is it necessary?

 

If we believe the White Sox messed up the Shark situation, and there are plenty of arguments to support that position which are well known and articulated, how does voicing that opinion make you a whiner?

 

Should we preface every retort with Sox Kool Aid drinkers would have us believe they planned the whole thing out in advance to go exactly the way it did?

Here we go again.

 

Can we ever have a conversation without feeling the need to insult someone (basically the majority of the site)?

 

Why is it necessary?

 

If we believe the White Sox messed up the Shark situation, and there are plenty of arguments to support that position which are well known and articulated, how does voicing that opinion make you a whiner?

 

Should we preface every retort with Sox Kool Aid drinkers would have us believe they planned the whole thing out in advance to go exactly the way it did?

Again what was offered for Samardzija? The reports said it was similar to Mike Leake. The Reds received a pinch hitter who can't hit, and a 21 year old who throws 96 in high A, has potential, but has already missed time with a sore rotator cuff, and BP said medicals and mechanics point to a future in the bullpen.The White Sox are probably going to get a 25-28 pick if not slightly better and an additional $2 million to play with. They have no problem developing relievers. It made sense at the time to hang on.

 

The fact is they did draft lower most of the last 2 decades. So if you are going to say picks near the bottom of the first round usually don't net any team much, then you really shouldn't complain about the White Sox drafts when the were selecting there.The other fact is, when they do make this selection, there will be players on the board who will eventually be all stars. They haven't picked these types, although they got Sale at 12 which was beyond a steal, so they are due.

Edited November 7, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

Last time we checked, Beckham and Hawkins weren't exactly "low" draft picks.

 

The complaint isn't so much about Sale, Anderson, Rodon and Fulmer as it is the wasteland which is all the other rounds the last two decades.

 

They've done decently with pitchers such as Santiago, Reed, Petricka, Erik Johnson, and Nate Jones, but position players are another matter...that we've paid dearly for covering up minor league deficiencies with "buy high for diminished future production" results. The cycle feels endless at this point.

 

 

One report comparing or linking Shark to Leake or Kazmir (with an agenda to make the Sox look better) isn't any more compelling than not knowing a single fact here.

 

And Honestly, by that line of thinking, we were almost ready to give out the equivalent of a $90-100 million deal to Mike Leake or Scott Kazmir....how disastrous would that have been for Hahn/KW? Talk about poor evaluation. Would those two pitchers also have been projected by the front office to lead the Sox to the second wild card as Hahn intimated staying pat would do at the deadline?

Edited November 7, 201510 yr by caulfield12

Last time we checked, Beckham and Hawkins weren't exactly "low" draft picks.

 

The complaint isn't so much about Sale, Anderson, Rodon and Fulmer as it is the wasteland which is all the other rounds the last two decades.

 

They've done decently with pitchers such as Santiago, Reed, Petricka, Erik Johnson, and Nate Jones, but position players are another matter...that we've paid dearly for covering up minor league deficiencies with "buy high for diminished future production" results. The cycle feels endless at this point.

 

 

One report comparing or linking Shark to Leake or Kazmir (with an agenda to make the Sox look better) isn't any more compelling than not knowing a single fact here.

 

And Honestly, by that line of thinking, we were almost ready to give out the equivalent of a $90-100 million deal to Mike Leake or Scott Kazmir....how disastrous would that have been for Hahn/KW? Talk about poor evaluation. Would those two pitchers also have been projected by the front office to lead the Sox to the second wild card as Hahn intimated staying pat would do at the deadline?

 

 

Beckham was picked 8th and has the 8th highest career WAR of the 46 players considered 1st round picks that year. Not as huge of a miss. Hawkins 13th, appears to be a miss, I will give you that one. Even Dayton Moore misses. Christain Colon 4th ? Chris Sale would have looked nice. Bubba Starling 5th? Sonny Gray might have been able to keep Cueto from having to be acquired and kept the dynamic duo of Duffy and Finegan together forever.

Edited November 7, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

Beckham was picked 8th and has the 8th highest career WAR of the 46 players considered 1st round picks that year. Not as huge of a miss. Hawkins 13th, appears to be a miss, I will give you that one. Even Dayton Moore misses. Christain Colon 4th ? Chris Sale would have looked nice. Bubba Starling 5th? Sonny Gray might have been able to keep Cueto from having to be acquired and kept the dynamic duo of Duffy and Finegan together forever.

 

Now I am forced to refer you to AFL stats and the fact that Starling's really coming on the last 12-16 months.

 

And, as has been stated here many times, any moves that lead to championships are automatically validated pretty much no matter what the prospects end up doing.

 

Finnegan is having some conditioning issues, and some dealing with coaches as well. At least I was right about Hector Santiago from the first day he pitched in relief against the Twins. Finnegan won't succeed as a starter unless he works on his stamina and secondary pitches.

Offer was expected and its expected he's leaving. Which is fine with me.

 

By the way Sullivan tonight has a story at the Tribune saying the Cubs "have their sites on him..."

 

It would be typical for him to have a good season next year, with some other team.

 

Mark

Dan Hayes is suggesting we'd lose our comp pick from Shark if we signed a free agent that received a QO. Anyone know if this is true?

I guess that's true, yeah. But assuming we didn't sign another FA with QO, we would keep the 2nd round pick.

 

I'd just as soon not lose any picks, though.

Dan Hayes is suggesting we'd lose our comp pick from Shark if we signed a free agent that received a QO. Anyone know if this is true?

Yes. You lose your next selection after The one that was protected.

Or, if we have to lose a pick, lose it for like, Grienke or Hayward and not Howie Kendrick.

 

Please no Howie Kendrick.

Yes. You lose your next selection after The one that was protected.

Interesting, always thought comp picks were protected, but I guess this makes sense.

Or, if we have to lose a pick, lose it for like, Grienke or Hayward and not Howie Kendrick.

 

Please no Howie Kendrick.

I'm cool with giving up a pick for Upton, but definitely not for a guy like Kendrick. Still can't believe a few of these guys got QOs, someone will be accepting this year that's for sure.

Dan Hayes is suggesting we'd lose our comp pick from Shark if we signed a free agent that received a QO. Anyone know if this is true?

 

 

I didn't think so. Yanks and other teams have done this before where they lose 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then still get a comp pick because their player left. I think the Sox lose their 2nd rounder regardless. I guess I could be sarong though.

I didn't think so. Yanks and other teams have done this before where they lose 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then still get a comp pick because their player left. I think the Sox lose their 2nd rounder regardless. I guess I could be sarong though.

Yeah, I honestly thought the same thing. And quite frankly, the difference in value between a high-end comp pick (if it indeed goes by record) and the 10th or so selection in the 2nd round is pretty significant. I'm really hoping your right here.

Yeah, I honestly thought the same thing. And quite frankly, the difference in value between a high-end comp pick (if it indeed goes by record) and the 10th or so selection in the 2nd round is pretty significant. I'm really hoping your right here.

 

 

The rules say that you'd forfeit your next pick if your 1st is protected. The "sandwich" picks can't be lost though. I'm almost sure of it.

The rules say that you'd forfeit your next pick if your 1st is protected. The "sandwich" picks can't be lost though. I'm almost sure of it.

Seattle lost their comp pick when they signed Robinson Cano.

 

Edit, they didn't because no one signed Morales in time, but the Yankees lost comp picks for Cano and Granderson that year signing free agents. So they would lose that pick first.

 

I don't think they will be signing those guys anyway.

Edited November 7, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

And before anyone says that's another reason they should have traded Samardzija, just remember he was so bad the second half, a replacement probably gets the White Sox an extra win or 2, which would have meant an unprotected pick at 11.

Dan Hayes is suggesting we'd lose our comp pick from Shark if we signed a free agent that received a QO. Anyone know if this is true?

And he's correct.

Another reason the Sox shouldn't sign a FA with a QO. There are few who fit in our price range anyway.

f*** that we need a bat. If we land a big bat in free agency, so be it.

And before anyone says that's another reason they should have traded Samardzija, just remember he was so bad the second half, a replacement probably gets the White Sox an extra win or 2, which would have meant an unprotected pick at 11.

 

I'm not ripping them but they should've moved him in June when they had the chance. They're in the "paid to get it right" business and they should've traded him. Oh well. Time to go out and have an aggressive offseason.

We don't know what Shark could have gotten, but before deadline when we were winning, there was a tweet saying sox had a deal in place with SF for Shark but wanted to wait and see. I think it was the next day Giants got Leake for their number one prospect Keury Mella. I believe that's who we could have gotten.