Baseball America White Sox top 10 list

[southsider2k5]

I should have put "scouts" in quotes, referring to how the board is generally dismissive toward all but the best prospects.

I really wasn't referring to you. I appreciate and respect your hard work.

 

Hopefully Anderson can develop some patience. That will be the difference between a great SS and another Alexei.

 

Speaking of "dismissive"... In the MLB of the '10's what is wrong with "another Alexei"? Up until 2015, he was one of the better SS's in the game. Without steroids, guys like that don't grow on trees anymore.

[OmarComing25]

Speaking of "dismissive"... In the MLB of the '10's what is wrong with "another Alexei"? Up until 2015, he was one of the better SS's in the game. Without steroids, guys like that don't grow on trees anymore.

From 2009-2014 Alexei averaged 3 WAR per season, if Anderson is able to put up a stretch like that I think we'd all be very happy.

[NorthSideSox72]

I should have put "scouts" in quotes, referring to how the board is generally dismissive toward all but the best prospects.

I really wasn't referring to you. I appreciate and respect your hard work.

 

Hopefully Anderson can develop some patience. That will be the difference between a great SS and another Alexei.

No worries, just wasn't what you were referring to.

 

Patience is a key for TA, but I think his defense at SS is even more important. That said, "another Alexei" would be fantastic.

 

[GreenSox]

Speaking of "dismissive"... In the MLB of the '10's what is wrong with "another Alexei"? Up until 2015, he was one of the better SS's in the game. Without steroids, guys like that don't grow on trees anymore.

Nothing wrong with it, I suppose.

I'm hoping he's a much better hitter than a .709 career OPS.

I'm hoping he's a great player or at least well above average. Ramirez wasn't.

And Ramirez is what he is, we should have traded him for Frazier and kept the other 3.

[southsider2k5]

Nothing wrong with it, I suppose.

I'm hoping he's a much better hitter than a .709 career OPS.

I'm hoping he's a great player or at least well above average. Ramirez wasn't.

And Ramirez is what he is, we should have traded him for Frazier and kept the other 3.

 

How many 3 WAR SS's are in the game today?

[Balta1701]

How many 3 WAR SS's are in the game today?

Last year? 4. Russell just on the outside at 2.9.

[Dick Allen]

Nothing wrong with it, I suppose.

I'm hoping he's a much better hitter than a .709 career OPS.

I'm hoping he's a great player or at least well above average. Ramirez wasn't.

And Ramirez is what he is, we should have traded him for Frazier and kept the other 3.

What they should have done is traded Shuck for Harper and Avi for Trout.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Nothing wrong with it, I suppose.

I'm hoping he's a much better hitter than a .709 career OPS.

I'm hoping he's a great player or at least well above average. Ramirez wasn't.

And Ramirez is what he is, we should have traded him for Frazier and kept the other 3.

Why would the Reds/Dodgers have had any interest in Alexei?

[OmarComing25]

Why would the Reds/Dodgers have had any interest in Alexei?

We also didn't have him on the roster, so I'm not sure how we could have traded him.

[GreenSox]

Why would the Reds/Dodgers have had any interest in Alexei?

???

I said if Anderson = Alexei, they should have traded him for Frazier.

Anderson is who the REds wanted and who we wouldn't give.

[GreenSox]

How many 3 WAR SS's are in the game today?

I counted 8 (Fangraphs standard search excludes players like Correa). Gregorious had a 3 war. Is that what we want out of Anderson? Yanks picked him up for a middle reliever.

Thompson, Johnson and Montas will deliver more than aggregate 3 WAR, once they get into their major league careers.

 

Brandon Crawford, who had mediocre AA and AAA stats (things which the cw claims are dispositive and players with mediocre minor league can be nothing but bench players) lead the majors in SS WAR.

If the price to upgrade from 2 WAR SS to 3 WAR is high, better stick to 2 WAR. You can get a 1 WAR improvement elsewhere for much cheaper.

Edited January 5, 2016 by GreenSox

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

???

I said if Anderson = Alexei, they should have traded him for Frazier.

Anderson is who the REds wanted and who we wouldn't give.

I thought you were referring to Alexei. My bad.

[southsider2k5]

I counted 8 (Fangraphs standard search excludes players like Correa). Gregorious had a 3 war. Is that what we want out of Anderson? Yanks picked him up for a middle reliever.

Thompson, Johnson and Montas will deliver more than aggregate 3 WAR, once they get into their major league careers.

 

Brandon Crawford, who had mediocre AA and AAA stats (things which the cw claims are dispositive and players with mediocre minor league can be nothing but bench players) lead the majors in SS WAR.

If the price to upgrade from 2 WAR SS to 3 WAR is high, better stick to 2 WAR. You can get a 1 WAR improvement elsewhere for much cheaper.

 

8 out of 30. Meaning that a 3 WAR player is clearly one of the best SS's in the game. If we get 3 years of a 3 WAR SS for $1.5 million total (not to mention years 4-6 for a bit more, but still much less than free agent rates), I would be thrilled. Would I love more, of course, but in all reality a cost controlled 3 WAR SS is a gold mine in 2016. Of course Cincy wanted him. They would be stupid not to.

[GreenSox]

8 out of 30. Meaning that a 3 WAR player is clearly one of the best SS's in the game. If we get 3 years of a 3 WAR SS for $1.5 million total (not to mention years 4-6 for a bit more, but still much less than free agent rates), I would be thrilled. Would I love more, of course, but in all reality a cost controlled 3 WAR SS is a gold mine in 2016. Of course Cincy wanted him. They would be stupid not to.

That puts him at the bottom of the top 1/4 of SS. That's what an org is looking for out of their top prospect?

I'm looking for an all star, frankly.

And if 3 WAR is what his is, that's certainly not worth the combined value of Montas, Thompson and Micah who will assuredly exceed that. (they'll likely exceed Frazier's WAR as well).

Edited January 5, 2016 by GreenSox

[OmarComing25]

That puts him at the bottom of the top 1/4 of SS. That's what an org is looking for out of their top prospect?

I'm looking for an all star, frankly.

And if 3 WAR is what his is, that's certainly not worth the combined value of Montas, Thompson and Micah who will assuredly exceed that. (they'll likely exceed Frazier's WAR as well).

I think your expectations are too high, even among the best prospects half of them will fail to stick at the ML level, and among those that do a great portion of them won't be All Star quality. A consistent 3 WAR player would be a great get for your top prospect, over the past 5 seasons there's only been 4 SS in the MLB who have averaged at least 3 WAR per season (Tulo, Peralta, Desmond, and Reyes). One 3 WAR player is also much more valuable than 3 1 WAR players.

[southsider2k5]

That puts him at the bottom of the top 1/4 of SS. That's what an org is looking for out of their top prospect?

I'm looking for an all star, frankly.

And if 3 WAR is what his is, that's certainly not worth the combined value of Montas, Thompson and Micah who will assuredly exceed that. (they'll likely exceed Frazier's WAR as well).

 

8 out of 30, means top 4 in each league, which is pretty damned close to it. The AL had two SS's on the roster, the NL had 3.

 

Yes, if we get a borderline all star SS for minimum wage I will be thrilled.

[Quin]

That puts him at the bottom of the top 1/4 of SS. That's what an org is looking for out of their top prospect?

I'm looking for an all star, frankly.

And if 3 WAR is what his is, that's certainly not worth the combined value of Montas, Thompson and Micah who will assuredly exceed that. (they'll likely exceed Frazier's WAR as well).

 

Montas, Thompson and Micah are not assured to exceed that.

 

Each has an elite tool: Montas - fastball, Thompson - defense, Micah - speed.

Each has a crippling flaw: Montas - third pitch, Thompson - contact, Micah - defense.

 

I'd love to see all three succeed, as well as Frazier, because it helps the Sox farm system reputation and by all accounts they're pretty great guys.

[NorthSideSox72]

That puts him at the bottom of the top 1/4 of SS. That's what an org is looking for out of their top prospect?

I'm looking for an all star, frankly.

And if 3 WAR is what his is, that's certainly not worth the combined value of Montas, Thompson and Micah who will assuredly exceed that. (they'll likely exceed Frazier's WAR as well).

Bottom of the top 1/4? That is a really tortured way to make a top quartile player sound somehow bad.

 

You're looking for an all star? Yeah we'd all like that, but come on. He might become that, but you're dismissing him if he isn't an All Star makes zero sense.

 

A 3 WAR/year shortstop for pre-arb dollars for three years and arb dollars another three is worth a heck of a lot.

 

Of course we are talking prospects so one never knows, but Micah and Thompson are seen by a lot of people as not even major league starters. Montas is probably a reliever. I'll take that 3 WAR/YR shortstop every time.

 

[GreenSox]

Montas, Thompson and Micah are not assured to exceed that.

 

Each has an elite tool: Montas - fastball, Thompson - defense, Micah - speed.

Each has a crippling flaw: Montas - third pitch, Thompson - contact, Micah - defense.

 

I'd love to see all three succeed, as well as Frazier, because it helps the Sox farm system reputation and by all accounts they're pretty great guys.

Semien, Phegley and Bassit were almost 5 WAR. So, yes, I'm confident that those 3, who are better prospects, will as well.

I realize that 5 war divided by 3 separate players doesn't equal 1 5 WAR player, but for 2 years in a row we cleaned out several of our top 10 prospects. Last year it was for a complete bust (and at best it would have been for a 1 year player) and this year let's hope we get Donaldson like production from Frazier.

And before I hear how mediocre Semien et al are, they were all better than many of the scrubs the sox ran out there last year.

And, indeed, if 3 WAR/Alexei is what anderson is, I would prefer moving him over what we moved for Frazier.

Edited January 5, 2016 by GreenSox

[bmags]

If you have a 3 war player, you do not need to upgrade them.

 

If you have three 1.5 WAR players...you have 3 players you'd be looking to upgrade to stars.

 

You would have the worlds most deep 74 win team, though.

[caulfield12]

Probably the bigger issue is what do they have left to trade if they don't sign Gordon, Cespedes or Upton?

 

Although most of the guys traded for Shark, Frazier and Lawrie weren't more than 0.5-1.5 war players (with the exception of Semien and/or Montas), they constituted 5-6 of the top ten prospects.

 

It's difficult to imagine Trey, Danish, May or a depreciating Hawkins being enough to entice CarGo deal, for instance.

 

One hopes because of financial reasons they don't clear out the rest of the farm. That would be penny wise and pound foolish for the future.

Edited January 5, 2016 by caulfield12

[2nd_city_saint787]

If you have a 3 war player, you do not need to upgrade them.

 

If you have three 1.5 WAR players...you have 3 players you'd be looking to upgrade to stars.

 

You would have the worlds most deep 74 win team, though.

 

This.

 

Saying you'd rather have 3 1 WAR players vs 1 3 WAR player is just, well, dumb.

[GreenSox]

If you have a 3 war player, you do not need to upgrade them.

 

If you have three 1.5 WAR players...you have 3 players you'd be looking to upgrade to stars.

 

You would have the worlds most deep 74 win team, though.

That's true except that for want of 1 YEAR of a 3 War player they ended up with 0 WAR at multiple positions, when they could have had 1-2 WAR at multiple positions.

 

Frazier deal will be fine IF a)He plays like he's supposed to and b)the Sox firm up LF and RF and DH. But Frazier with 0 WAR in those spots again is counterproductive.

Edited January 6, 2016 by GreenSox

[OmarComing25]

That's true except that for want of 1 YEAR of a 3 War player they ended up with 0 WAR at multiple positions, when they could have had 1-2 WAR at multiple positions.

 

Frazier deal will be fine IF a)He plays like he's supposed to and b)the Sox firm up LF and RF and DH. But Frazier with 0 WAR in those spots again is counterproductive.

Micah wasn't going to be at 2B with Lawrie there (and he wouldn't have beat out Sanchez anyway), so not sure where he would have made an impact. Montas was likely going to be in the minors again for the majority of the season. And Frazier's here for 2 years, not 1.

[southsider2k5]

That's true except that for want of 1 YEAR of a 3 War player they ended up with 0 WAR at multiple positions, when they could have had 1-2 WAR at multiple positions.

 

Frazier deal will be fine IF a)He plays like he's supposed to and b)the Sox firm up LF and RF and DH. But Frazier with 0 WAR in those spots again is counterproductive.

 

I would say the odds of the players traded away putting up a zero WAR is much higher than Todd Frazier putting up a zero WAR in 2016. It isn't hard to squint and see Thompson not being able to hit MLB pitching, Montas not being ready for MLB, and Johnson not having the health or defense to be able to stick in MLB.