2016 Cubs catch-all thread

[daa84]

The Cubs only need to go 65-10 the rest of the way to break the all time wins record. After all, they are the greatest team ever.

 

Now on pace for 97 wins. Same as last years squad

[The Mighty Mite]

The Cubs only need to go 65-10 the rest of the way to break the all time wins record. After all, they are the greatest team ever.

 

Now on pace for 97 wins. Same as last years squad

 

They will win just over 90 and might make a WC spot. I think the Pirates and Cards will both catch the Flubs which leaves one WC Spot which they will have to fight the Mets and Dodger for.

Edited July 10, 2016 by The Mighty Mite

[Jake]

While I've enjoyed watching them struggle, I still see no reason to bet against them as divisional champs at the least.

[southsider2k5]

While I've enjoyed watching them struggle, I still see no reason to bet against them as divisional champs at the least.

 

Realistically it would take an epic 1969 style collapse for them not to win the division.

[fathom]

While I've enjoyed watching them struggle, I still see no reason to bet against them as divisional champs at the least.

 

Yep, God knows they will go all out at the deadline also. Pirates pitching is horrible this season.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Realistically it would take an epic 1969 style collapse for them not to win the division.

I wouldn't be shocked, they're still the Cubs.

[Soxfest]

I wouldn't be shocked, they're still the Cubs.

Always and forever.

[LittleHurt05]

While I've enjoyed watching them struggle, I still see no reason to bet against them as divisional champs at the least.

 

Yup. They are on such a slump yet still have a 7 game lead. I'd be a little concerned with their pitching but that lineup just has so much talent.

[lord chas]

Yup. They are on such a slump yet still have a 7 game lead. I'd be a little concerned with their pitching but that lineup just has so much talent.

Very true. Cubs feast on other teams 4/5 starters. My hope is that the pitching continues to struggle and they have to overpay for pitching at the deadline

[Jake]

Yeah a best case for us in the anti-Cubs crowd is they gut their system trying to add this year but don't ultimately get a ring.

[fathom]

Jimenez might be the fastest rising prospect in baseball. Another insane hitting prospect they are developing.

[caulfield12]

The Cubs can get away with trading Baez, Edwards, Jr., Almora, Jr. or McKinney and still not really impact their future core. Soler busting isn't really going to end up having much of an impact with the resources they're playing around with there. (And that's not even considering Schwarber as well and what they do with him.)

 

I'm not sure you could get Jimenez and Torres if you offered our entire system (pre 2016 draft). Even then, not sure.

 

Vogelbach would be our #4-6 prospect and can't even sniff the Top 10 over there.

 

 

(And, let's be honest, EVERYONE in the entire world knew a 99-100 MPH fastball was coming there...but that bat speed anticipating it was still quite impressive.)

Edited July 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Jimenez might be the fastest rising prospect in baseball. Another insane hitting prospect they are developing.

 

You keep saying this but what hitting prospects have they developed?

 

Bryant and Schwarber were ready out of college

I'll give credit for Rizzo but he was already a stud in other orgs.

Russell has improved but hes not a great hitter yet.

Zobrist and Fowler were 30+ year old free agents

Baez and Soler haven't lived up to expectations yet.

Contreras does look good so far but that's one guy and the league can still adjust.

[Panerista]

You keep saying this but what hitting prospects have they developed?

 

Bryant and Schwarber were ready out of college

I'll give credit for Rizzo but he was already a stud in other orgs.

Russell has improved but hes not a great hitter yet.

Zobrist and Fowler were 30+ year old free agents

Baez and Soler haven't lived up to expectations yet.

Contreras does look good so far but that's one guy and the league can still adjust.

Tell me honestly: When you write this nonsense down, are you paid by the word?

 

We get it, you don't like the Cubs.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Deadpool

[Jordan4life_2007]

Tell me honestly: When you write this nonsense down, are you paid by the word?

 

We get it, you don't like the Cubs.

 

I'm kinda drunk. But did he say anything that was incorrect?

[caulfield12]

DEVELOPMENT ISN'T THE KEY.

 

IT'S IDENTIFYING TALENT...especially if it's undervalued.

 

SEE Quentin, Floyd, Danks, Alexei, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Nate Jones, Addison Reed, Hector Santiago, Sergio Santos, etc.

 

The problem is we haven't been very good at it, by and large, since the 2008 playoff team...and going on 7-8 years now.

Edited July 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[Panerista]

I'm kinda drunk. But did he say anything that was incorrect?

First of all, he gave the Cubs credit for Rizzo, which is kind of strange because they traded for him. Secondly, he assumed regression among all the other players he "gave credit for" which is a little silly because neither Soler or Baez are getting regular plate appearances. To say the farm system isn't developing isn't an argument, it's just stupidity.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I'm kinda drunk. But did he say anything that was incorrect?

 

In fact, I wouldn't even give them credit for Russell. He spent 61 games in their minor league system, 180+ in Oakland's.

 

But honestly, just graduating all those other guys is quite impressive on it's own, even if Soler and Baez and Contreras and Almora only turn out of be average major leaguers or role players.

[Panerista]

DEVELOPMENT ISN'T THE KEY.

 

IT'S IDENTIFYING TALENT...especially if it's undervalued.

 

SEE Quentin, Floyd, Danks, Alexei, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Nate Jones, Addison Reed, Hector Santiago, Sergio Santos, etc.

 

The problem is we haven't been very good at it, by and large, since the 2008 playoff team...and going on 7-8 years now.

You forgot the

 

IN THE DRAFT part. It is critical we find talent in the field IN THE DRAFT. Tim Anderson is a good start (although he walks less than Bran Stark). That needs to happen ALL THE TIME.

[Panerista]

In fact, I wouldn't even give them credit for Russell. He spent 61 games in their minor league system, 180+ in Oakland's.

 

But honestly, just graduating all those other guys is quite impressive on it's own, even if Soler and Baez and Contreras and Almora only turn out of be average major leaguers or role players.

The worst part is we would be a lot better with Baez, Contreras, and Almora.

[LittleHurt05]

Tell me honestly: When you write this nonsense down, are you paid by the word?

 

We get it, you don't like the Cubs.

 

Besides the six figure salary I earn as a moderator , no, I don't get paid for my words.

 

Fathom has talked about the hitters the Cubs keep developing and I am questioning what hitters have they actually "developed ". They have done a hell of a job of acquiring talent but almost every great hitter they have learned the craft before coming to.Chicago.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Then you can add Torres and Jimenez (so far)...Almora has spent a ton of time in their system, although he hasn't proven anything yet.

 

If you're the Cubs, the only thing that matters is having multiple streams of talent to feed the system, which they do via trades, under/over 21 Latin American signings/international free agents and drafting.

 

Now, all that SAID, if Arrieta breaks down at some point in July or August, they're going to be completely screwed because Lester and Lackey might not be good enough (at least as they are now) to be the linchpins of a playoff rotation. A month ago, as a Cubs' fan, you would have said, "we got this!" because they looked THAT good, with the caveat it was mostly against inferior competition.

 

Let's keep reminding ourselves....2006 Chicago White Sox, 26 games over .500 at the All-Star Break. Now I highly doubt the Pirates and Cards are going to go all Twins/Tigers from that year, but stranger things have happened if you removed their #1 starter from the equation.

Edited July 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

First of all, he gave the Cubs credit for Rizzo, which is kind of strange because they traded for him. Secondly, he assumed regression among all the other players he "gave credit for" which is a little silly because neither Soler or Baez are getting regular plate appearances. To say the farm system isn't developing isn't an argument, it's just stupidity.

 

Stupidity? That's a nice thing to say.

 

I gave them credit for Rizzo because he didn't become a star until Chicago and I was trying not to be biased.

 

I'm not assuming regression for Baez and Soler, they just haven't shown enough to regress in the first place.

 

I never called out their farm system, their MLB roster just has very few homegrown guys that weren't already great at baseball.

 

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

DEVELOPMENT ISN'T THE KEY.

 

IT'S IDENTIFYING TALENT...especially if it's undervalued.

 

SEE Quentin, Floyd, Danks, Alexei, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Nate Jones, Addison Reed, Hector Santiago, Sergio Santos, etc.

 

The problem is we haven't been very good at it, by and large, since the 2008 playoff team...and going on 7-8 years now.

 

But DEVELOPMENT is the argument we are having. Nobody once questioned IDENTIFYING TALENT

[caulfield12]

But it's almost impossible to separate the two because development (let's just say, skill refinement) often happens at the major league level...around top flight coaches like Don Cooper or Joe Maddon.

 

Instead of saying who HAS developed and should take credit for it, try the opposite (WHO HASN'T):

 

Soler, that's a hard one to decide, because the major league results are inconclusive so far due to injuries. Let's say call him a disappointment so far, but no better or worse than, let's say, Dayan Viciedo or Avi Garcia. One thing that has become pretty true across the board is almost all Cuban hitters (other than Cespedes) are having trouble adjusting back to pitching adjustments made to them (see Abreu and Puig, Rusney Castillo, etc.)

 

Every hitter, though, is unique. You can't say the Red Sox are GREAT at developing talent simply because Moncada becomes a star...as everyone saw that coming, right?

 

Almora, based on draft position...perhaps, but jury's still out again.

 

Contreras....looks pretty good so far.

 

Schwarber...not much development they had to do. But they picked him MUCH higher than almost anyone in baseball had him on their boards.

 

If you want to argue AGAINST the Cubs being good at developing talent, the argument's centered around Soler, Almora and Javier Baez, although Baez certainly has been an overall positive (despite the occasional defensive misplay, which comes from being moved all around and never getting comfortable with one position, see Semien, Marcus.)

 

Vogelbach gets mentioned a lot, and he's become a solid prospect in their system even though he has been doubted at every turn...of course, the obvious problem is there's nowhere for him to play.

 

Addison Russell, can you blame their minor league system when he was barely in it...and no, making the All-Star team doesn't mean they've succeeded, but clearly he can play very good defense and if his bat comes around at all, he's going to be a consistent 3-4 WAR provider.

 

Concepcion was doubted by everyone in baseball when they "overpaid" for him, and he made it to the big leagues.

 

Jimenez and Torres have developed from raw/toolsy athletes into consensus Top 20-30 MILB prospects, if not higher. Edwards has looked REALLY good out of the bullpen so far, and has impressive stuff...he's already moved up to the Nate Jones 8th inning role for Maddon.

 

 

At worst, you can say they made some mistakes with Soler and Almora (and that's not even for sure, just has taken LONGER to develop than previously projected) and Baez still has the contact issues, but it's almost impossible to make an assessment at this exact moment in time unless we look at all these prospects from the perspective of 2021 looking backwards.

 

Finally, how do they not get credit for Kyle Hendricks?

Edited July 11, 2016 by caulfield12