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BigSqwert

Most Airlines just don't seem to care

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 10:34 AM)
It would never get to millions because its just like anything, at some point a person will take the offer. Its impossible to imagine that if someone was offered $10k they wont take it. You could rent a car and drive to Louisville (its a 4.5 hour drive) and still be at work the next day.

 

The part that is odd is that no one at United thought that it would be better to figure out alternative transportation for their employees than creating a pr disaster. It was Chicago to Louisville, you have to believe there was some other way to accomplish their goal.

 

Not even their United employees, but for Republic, a smaller partner airline.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 11:34 AM)
It would never get to millions because its just like anything, at some point a person will take the offer. Its impossible to imagine that if someone was offered $10k they wont take it. You could rent a car and drive to Louisville (its a 4.5 hour drive) and still be at work the next day.

 

The part that is odd is that no one at United thought that it would be better to figure out alternative transportation for their employees than creating a pr disaster. It was Chicago to Louisville, you have to believe there was some other way to accomplish their goal.

 

I am sure they could have paid for another airline's ticket to come out ahead.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 09:37 AM)
Not even their United employees, but for Republic, a smaller partner airline.

 

Wait, so let me get this straight....

 

They decided to board everyone on the plane.

 

Then they realized they had 4 Republic Airlines employees who wanted to take this flight and tried to get 4 paying customers to deboard?

 

They have a senior citizen forcefully removed, bloodying his face, while passengers scream and children begin crying.

 

The CEO of United then issues a sorry-not-sorry apology which blames the old man for being disruptive.

 

The CPD claims the man fell even though there is plenty of video footage contradicting this.

 

Wow. Business classes will be studying this debacle for years.

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I'm flying with a 4 year old and 18 months old tomorrow. If they offer me money and free child care on the plane, I might happily surrender my seat.

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Curious how much of this is true. Snatched it from a self-proclaimed lawyer who posted on reddit:

 

1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about " OVERSALES", specifically defined as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

 

2. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

 

3. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 12:17 PM)
I'm flying with a 4 year old and 18 months old tomorrow. If they offer me money and free child care on the plane, I might happily surrender my seat.

 

We are talking about driving for a Disney trip at the end of the year. If they paid airfare for us to go, I'd be off in a heartbeat. In fact I am going to a conference in DC in May, I'd love to have exactly this happen... so it won't.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 12:08 PM)
Wow, this post is exactly what's wrong with this country. If someone is traumatized over watching this, then they must have lived the most sheltered life possible.

Some people are traumatized just getting on an aircraft. If you have this man's blood on your pants, you should sue.

 

Glad Jimmy Kimmel and his show went after United. Priceless at the end of the fake United commercial in which a flight attendant explains they'll decide if you fly or not. "We're United. f*** You."

This incident will have its 20 minutes and be gone soon, but hopefully the United stock will remain down.

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 11:56 AM)
Wait, so let me get this straight....

 

They decided to board everyone on the plane.

 

Then they realized they had 4 Republic Airlines employees who wanted to take this flight and tried to get 4 paying customers to deboard?

 

They have a senior citizen forcefully removed, bloodying his face, while passengers scream and children begin crying.

 

The CEO of United then issues a sorry-not-sorry apology which blames the old man for being disruptive.

 

The CPD claims the man fell even though there is plenty of video footage contradicting this.

 

Wow. Business classes will be studying this debacle for years.

Different accounts have said they told this guy before he boarded and he refused and boarded anyway and thats why the police were called.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 12:17 PM)
I'm flying with a 4 year old and 18 months old tomorrow. If they offer me money and free child care on the plane, I might happily surrender my seat.

Im flying thursday with my wife and my 3 year old on SWA, I bet any amount of money we wont have to give up our seats.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:00 PM)
Im flying thursday with my wife and my 3 year old on SWA, I bet any amount of money we wont have to give up our seats.

 

We flew SWA last summer as a family, it was great. You don't have to worry about checking early, because you are automatically in between group A and B, so you can definitely get a row to yourself.

 

Southwest has been great every time I flew with them, but I live way too close to O'Hare to fly them regularly.

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If there is a possibility he is getting involuntarily bumped from the flight, why they even had him board the plane is beyond me.

 

Let him scream at the gate agent...this is unacceptable.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:03 PM)
We flew SWA last summer as a family, it was great. You don't have to worry about checking early, because you are automatically in between group A and B, so you can definitely get a row to yourself.

 

Southwest has been great every time I flew with them, but I live way too close to O'Hare to fly them regularly.

I started using them because it was close to the west loop, but now its just too convenient to put my points there. I always get A because of my status and they always seem to be on time. Not to mention no fees for changing flights. Thats huge when you fly for work. If I need another airline I do delta because of the hubs here.

 

I really wish we had actual train travel.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 02:21 PM)
Oh god, now they are digging up dirt on this passenger. AWful.

According to TMZ, the passenger has run afoul of the law as a doctor a few times. Doesn't seem to have much to do with the case but I guess if the doctor is a bad guy he's a bad guy.

 

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 06:03 PM)
We flew SWA last summer as a family, it was great. You don't have to worry about checking early, because you are automatically in between group A and B, so you can definitely get a row to yourself.

 

Southwest has been great every time I flew with them, but I live way too close to O'Hare to fly them regularly.

I've seen the family boarding and I agree it looks like a good policy, but a lot of times the plane is half full when it begins boarding. I could see a family having problems if it tries to board one of those flights that's already half full when it begins boarding. As far as O'Hare being close, damn, take Uber to Midway. The SWA experience out of Midway is so much better than O'Hare do whatever it takes to get on that SWA flight including taking Uber to Midway.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:10 PM)
According to TMZ, the passenger has run afoul of the law as a doctor a few times. Doesn't seem to have much to do with the case but I guess if the doctor is a bad guy he's a bad guy.

 

 

I've seen the family boarding and I agree it looks like a good policy, but a lot of times the plane is half full when it begins boarding. I could see a family having problems if it tries to board one of those flights that's already half full when it begins boarding. As far as O'Hare being close, damn, take Uber to Midway. The SWA experience out of Midway is so much better than O'Hare do whatever it takes to get on that SWA flight including taking Uber to Midway.

Its mathematically impossible for the plane to be half full after the A group and before the B group. It can be close, but that still leaves a whole bunch of seats next to each other. There are 48 middle seats so families should be able to get at least two next to each other by the time they board.

 

 

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 05:59 PM)
Different accounts have said they told this guy before he boarded and he refused and boarded anyway and thats why the police were called.

That could obviously be true, but it doesn't make much sense that he'd be told and board anyway. I would think if they told the guy before he boarded he wouldn't be allowed on the plane. I guess it would be even more of a s***show if they told him, and he still boarded: "OK sir, go ahead and board but this isn't going to end well. You are not flying to Louisville today as you will find out if you go to your seat."

 

 

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:14 PM)
Its mathematically impossible for the plane to be half full after the A group and before the B group. It can be close, but that still leaves a whole bunch of seats next to each other. There are 48 middle seats so families should be able to get at least two next to each other by the time they board.

 

If there are a lot of passengers on a continuing flight, the plane can still be pretty full before even A group boards. Plus if you're flying from somewhere like Ft. Lauderdale and there a ton of older people and their families boarding with blue boarding passes (disability).

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 06:14 PM)
Its mathematically impossible for the plane to be half full after the A group and before the B group. It can be close, but that still leaves a whole bunch of seats next to each other. There are 48 middle seats so families should be able to get at least two next to each other by the time they board.

Interesting. I know one time I had seat assignment A 35 or 40 and there was basically no place to put my carry on and I had to go pretty far to the back just to get a seat. Most of the time obviously A35 or 40 almost gets me in the exit row. Of course the newer SWA planes only have one true exit row now in terms of more legroom. The other exit rows are just as cramped as regular rows. I still like SWA the best by far. Like I said any other airline sickens me.

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One of the best things about SWA is if you make a flight reservation and cancel it, you have up to a year to use the funds on another flight. That's a pretty good deal. I think on every other airline if you make a reservation and don't use it, you still pay.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:19 PM)
Interesting. I know one time I had seat assignment A 35 or 40 and there was basically no place to put my carry on and I had to go pretty far to the back just to get a seat. Most of the time obviously A35 or 40 almost gets me in the exit row. Of course the newer SWA planes only have one true exit row now in terms of more legroom. The other exit rows are just as cramped as regular rows. I still like SWA the best by far. Like I said any other airline sickens me.

Unless there were tons of pre boards or you were the middle of a connecting flight (based on your location that could happen) 40 people could take window/aisle in the first 10 rows of 24.

 

The carryon thing these days is the WORST regardless of airlines. People dont know how to store them, overpack them, and routinely bring ones that are too big. If you are past the first 60 people on the flight regionally and you have a carry on, good luck. That sucker is being gate checked

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 01:19 PM)
If there are a lot of passengers on a continuing flight, the plane can still be pretty full before even A group boards. Plus if you're flying from somewhere like Ft. Lauderdale and there a ton of older people and their families boarding with blue boarding passes (disability).

The disability thing is so abused its not even funny. But you are correct, and Greg is probably in a prime connecting location.

 

There were 22 wheelchairs from an arriving flight from phoenix to MN last week. Even the employees couldnt believe it.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 11, 2017 -> 06:29 PM)
Unless there were tons of pre boards or you were the middle of a connecting flight (based on your location that could happen) 40 people could take window/aisle in the first 10 rows of 24.

 

The carryon thing these days is the WORST regardless of airlines. People dont know how to store them, overpack them, and routinely bring ones that are too big. If you are past the first 60 people on the flight regionally and you have a carry on, good luck. That sucker is being gate checked

So basically if I have B-1 I should be concerned about my carryon fitting overhead? My duffel bag which can fit clothes for up to a week as long as I don't have to put extra shoes in there has suited me fine for trips. I've never had one of those big suitcases that people stuff up there or try to fit up there. I would basically describe my attitude toward flying as I despise it. Parking at the KC Airport is too expensive and hit or miss finding a spot. Also the food at KC Airport is horrific. Eat a banana and that's it. The actual boarding of a SWA flight is OK for me as I always pay the extra to make sure I'm in A group. The flight itself is OK as for some reason it puts me to sleep. Getting the rental car is OK because I have Avis Preferred. The only good part of travel is the part after you check in the hotel and have the trip ahead of you now.

 

p.s. It's humorous to me to fly AA and Delta where there are 5-6-7 elite, platinum, gold, medallion, whatever the hell groups that board first. Man ... a lot of people in the USA fly. I paid extra for my flight to Hawaii on AA and by the time I boarded almost all the overhead space was gonzo.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (KagakuOtoko @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 11:52 AM)
United sucks. I don't know why anyone would fly with the big 3. They are absolutely garbage.

 

I actually don't mind Delta at all. I've generally had pretty good experiences with them. I hated United even before seeing this though.

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