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2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 12:13 PM)
I can believe it. Not sure why the sixers would want to trade for Jimmy with where they are as a franchise right now.

 

Agreed. You trade for Butler when you're on the cusp of something. Now the Celtics on the other hand? Can't wait for the draft.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:59 AM)
So Stephen A Smith apparently reported this morning that the Sixers turned down a Butler for pick #3(and potentially more) deal.

 

Stephen A says CELTS trying to get both Hayward and Butler

 

 

KC Johnson says: Right now, league belief is Celtics will use No. 3 pick and chase Gordon Hayward in free agency, not pursue Jimmy Butler.

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QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:05 PM)
<!--quoteo(post=3526198:date=Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:59 AM:name=JenksIsMyHero)-->
QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:59 AM)
<!--quotec-->So Stephen A Smith apparently reported this morning that the Sixers turned down a Butler for pick #3(and potentially more) deal.

 

Stephen A says CELTS trying to get both Hayward and Butler

 

 

KC Johnson says: Right now, league belief is Celtics will use No. 3 pick and chase Gordon Hayward in free agency, not pursue Jimmy Butler.

 

I think they have the assets and salary space to get both - trade #3, Bradley, and Zeller for Butler, and sign Hayward in FA. But that would create logjam of wingmen for them, unless they want to go small and put Brown or Crowder at 4.

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If the Bulls arent getting #1, I dont really have interest in trading Butler.

 

(edit)

 

If the Bulls trade Butler for Bradley, #3 and Zeller the Bulls should be contracted.

Edited by Soxbadger

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:23 PM)
If the Bulls arent getting #1, I dont really have interest in trading Butler.

 

(edit)

 

If the Bulls trade Butler for Bradley, #3 and Zeller the Bulls should be contracted.

 

yep.

 

 

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We may have just 2 years of Jimmy Butler left before he walks for nothing. If we get that package from Bos, I'd bite. Bradley and Zeller you can turn around and flip for multiple draft picks as they're expiring contracts.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:32 PM)
We may have just 2 years of Jimmy Butler left before he walks for nothing. If we get that package from Bos, I'd bite. Bradley and Zeller you can turn around and flip for multiple draft picks as they're expiring contracts.

 

If Boston wanted Butler they could have traded #1. There is no point in taking #3 from the team who had #1 and could have directly traded it to the Bulls.

 

Who knows what will happen, but most people believe that Fultz is the best player in this draft. Now that may not happen, but the trade should have gone to the Bulls for #1 and then if the Bulls wanted to do something else, they could have moved the pick.

 

Since the Celtics didnt trade the #1 to the Bulls, i cant imagine the Bulls take the #3. The only way that would make any sense is if the Bulls are getting multiple 1st rounders plus the #3 and the Celts wanted the extra pick from the 76ers.

 

IE the Bulls are getting #3 this year, BKN 2018, LA 2018, 2019 LAC

 

Now that is a deal for Butler and you can live with the swap down to #3 in this years draft.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:52 PM)
If Boston wanted Butler they could have traded #1. There is no point in taking #3 from the team who had #1 and could have directly traded it to the Bulls.

 

Who knows what will happen, but most people believe that Fultz is the best player in this draft. Now that may not happen, but the trade should have gone to the Bulls for #1 and then if the Bulls wanted to do something else, they could have moved the pick.

 

Since the Celtics didnt trade the #1 to the Bulls, i cant imagine the Bulls take the #3. The only way that would make any sense is if the Bulls are getting multiple 1st rounders plus the #3 and the Celts wanted the extra pick from the 76ers.

 

IE the Bulls are getting #3 this year, BKN 2018, LA 2018, 2019 LAC

 

Now that is a deal for Butler and you can live with the swap down to #3 in this years draft.

 

I think the counterargument is Celts did not want to give up two potential #1 overall picks for butler. This trade allowed them to trade back to 3 and gain additional high lottery picks. THey can then trade potential #1-3 overall pick next year, #3 this year and players, and still have high lottery picks to continue to supplement their team cheaply.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:52 PM)
If Boston wanted Butler they could have traded #1. There is no point in taking #3 from the team who had #1 and could have directly traded it to the Bulls.

 

Who knows what will happen, but most people believe that Fultz is the best player in this draft. Now that may not happen, but the trade should have gone to the Bulls for #1 and then if the Bulls wanted to do something else, they could have moved the pick.

 

Since the Celtics didnt trade the #1 to the Bulls, i cant imagine the Bulls take the #3. The only way that would make any sense is if the Bulls are getting multiple 1st rounders plus the #3 and the Celts wanted the extra pick from the 76ers.

 

IE the Bulls are getting #3 this year, BKN 2018, LA 2018, 2019 LAC

 

Now that is a deal for Butler and you can live with the swap down to #3 in this years draft.

 

Let's be real here, you aren't getting that offer for Butler from any team, especially with Jackson being a #1 pick candidate in a different draft. I highly doubt you'd find a better deal in this year's draft (meaning Lakers or Sixer don't need Butler now), and his value will only go down next year by being one year closer to free agency. So you want them to just stand pat?

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:58 PM)
I think the counterargument is Celts did not want to give up two potential #1 overall picks for butler. This trade allowed them to trade back to 3 and gain additional high lottery picks. THey can then trade potential #1-3 overall pick next year, #3 this year and players, and still have high lottery picks to continue to supplement their team cheaply.

 

Celtics can do whatever they want, if Im making the trade the swap from #1 to #3 cost them at least 2 future 1st round picks.

 

Its really their call if they want to win a championship or not. Maybe they are fine winning regular season games with a finals appearance or 2. But as it stands they need a lot more talent to come close to GSW. They have no Lebron level player.

 

Honestly Celtics are closer to being a team that loses in the 1st round than a team that wins the NBA title.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:04 PM)
Let's be real here, you aren't getting that offer for Butler from any team, especially with Jackson being a #1 pick candidate in a different draft. I highly doubt you'd find a better deal in this year's draft (meaning Lakers or Sixer don't need Butler now), and his value will only go down next year by being one year closer to free agency. So you want them to just stand pat?

 

I think youd have to go back to 2013 for Jackson to be in the argument #1 overall. No way he goes before Simmons, KAT, Wiggins.

 

If it isnt the right deal, you pass. That is the NBA. If you start talking .50 for top level players, you will never win a championship. The only way the Bulls have any chance of winning the foreseeable future is to lure a free agent to play with Butler.

Edited by Soxbadger

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:13 PM)
I think youd have to go back to 2013 for Jackson to be in the argument #1 overall. No way he goes before Simmons, KAT, Wiggins.

 

If it isnt the right deal, you pass. That is the NBA. If you start talking .50 for top level players, you will never win a championship. The only way the Bulls have any chance of winning the foreseeable future is to lure a free agent to play with Butler.

 

So 0% then

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QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:14 PM)
So 0% then

 

Well say 1%. Not to mention there is still the chance that some team offers a really great package for Butler.

 

The chances of winning the title if you trade Butler for #3, Zeller and Bradley is 0%.

 

 

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:13 PM)
I think youd have to go back to 2013 for Jackson to be in the argument #1 overall. No way he goes before Simmons, KAT, Wiggins.

 

If it isnt the right deal, you pass. That is the NBA. If you start talking .50 for top level players, you will never win a championship. The only way the Bulls have any chance of winning the foreseeable future is to lure a free agent to play with Butler.

 

If the Bulls couldn't lure FA to come here before, it's harder than ever now with player incentivized by staying with draft team. I think the actual way to win these days is to acquire as much asset as possible and build within, then to attract FA's when you have a strong young core. Bulls are soon to be overtaken by the teams (Sixers, Bucks) adopted to this philosophy, and already overtook by the Celtics who has done the same. Let's not forget the Rose/Thibs era started because of the draft, and the biggest FA we acquired was Boozer.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:18 PM)
Bulls are not even 1 superstar away.

 

Which is why you cant turn your most valuable asset into a guy who right now cant shoot well.

 

There just is a huge difference between Fultz and Jackson.

 

I think this is all meaningless as I dont believe the Bulls will trade Butler for anything less than the type of deal I said above, and I believe the Celts are perfectly happy being the 5th best team in the NBA.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:16 PM)
Well say 1%. Not to mention there is still the chance that some team offers a really great package for Butler.

 

The chances of winning the title if you trade Butler for #3, Zeller and Bradley is 0%.

 

A three way trade with Butler for #3, and Bradley, Zeller going to a third team for expiring gives you #3, and perhaps 2 mid-round first rounders. You may get a slightly better offer elsewhere, you may not, but you will not get an offer anywhere close to #3, BKN, LAL, and LAC 1st rounders.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:25 PM)
If the Bulls couldn't lure FA to come here before, it's harder than ever now with player incentivized by staying with draft team. I think the actual way to win these days is to acquire as much asset as possible and build within, then to attract FA's when you have a strong young core. Bulls are soon to be overtaken by the teams (Sixers, Bucks) adopted to this philosophy, and already overtook by the Celtics who has done the same. Let's not forget the Rose/Thibs era started because of the draft, and the biggest FA we acquired was Boozer.

 

I dont disagree. I just disagree with the value.

 

Josh Jackson shot sub 60% from FT. He is not a very good shooter.

 

There are some other guys who id take over him if I was completely restarting a franchise. Because they are more boom/bust, and with GSW being the team to beat, you need scorers.

 

(edit)

 

I think the part you keep missing is I dont really want #3 in this draft. Id rather get more future picks than the #3 in this draft. if I had the #3 and i was rebuilding, Id probably take Fox.

Edited by Soxbadger

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:32 PM)
We may have just 2 years of Jimmy Butler left before he walks for nothing. If we get that package from Bos, I'd bite. Bradley and Zeller you can turn around and flip for multiple draft picks as they're expiring contracts.

 

It might take getting back some vets to make the cap room part work. If that is the case, hopefully the plan is to turn them into assets as well.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 01:52 PM)
If Boston wanted Butler they could have traded #1. There is no point in taking #3 from the team who had #1 and could have directly traded it to the Bulls.

 

Who knows what will happen, but most people believe that Fultz is the best player in this draft. Now that may not happen, but the trade should have gone to the Bulls for #1 and then if the Bulls wanted to do something else, they could have moved the pick.

 

Since the Celtics didnt trade the #1 to the Bulls, i cant imagine the Bulls take the #3. The only way that would make any sense is if the Bulls are getting multiple 1st rounders plus the #3 and the Celts wanted the extra pick from the 76ers.

 

IE the Bulls are getting #3 this year, BKN 2018, LA 2018, 2019 LAC

 

Now that is a deal for Butler and you can live with the swap down to #3 in this years draft.

 

They got an extra #1 pick out of the 1 for 3 deal.

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The reality of this all is that the Celts aren't even thinking about Butler or the Bulls at this point, is it not? They moved on from that talk a long time ago and are totally fine with building through the draft with their seemingly endless supply of high draft picks. Its fun to talk about but I don't think a Bulls/Celts trade is even a possibility anymore.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 02:33 PM)
They got an extra #1 pick out of the 1 for 3 deal.

 

Which is why the only way it makes sense for the Bulls is if the Bulls are getting additional #1 picks from the Celtics.

 

Fultz value to Celts wasnt as high as it would be to the Bulls, which is why if the Celts now want to trade with the Bulls theyd have to pay an extra premium. Which is why I do not believe the Celts-Bulls will make a trade.

 

Id bet that Ainge thinks Jackson can do what they needed out of a guy like Butler defensively and that they will get a free agent for more scoring.

 

Still wont be anywhere near NBA Championship level, but im not the Celtics GM or fan, so I really dont care how much they screw up all these amazing picks they got from the Nets. But one day people will look back and wonder how they f***ed it up so badly.

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