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Official 2018-2019 NHL thread

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Despite the loss, Lehner was and has been fantastic. Simply fantastic. Easily the better goalie. He should be getting majority of the starts. 

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Dach and Nylander were outstanding. Saad continues to be our best forward/player.

Lehner was average in this one. 

Everybody else sucked. When Slater Koekkoek is your best defensemen in a game (or any 7th D), you are not going to win many games. 

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Hawks are off to a pretty awful start,not sure how much of a leash Colliton has left. Although I’m sure Stan knows if Colliton goes he’s probably gone too (as it should be)

Edited by TheTruth05

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Crawford is done. Guy just isn't a good goalie anymore. 

An 18 year old rookie (Dach) is outplaying all of the "core guys" now.

Nylander and Saad continue to be good.

Strome actually wasn't as bad as he's been in this one.

The rest are just god awful. Keith looks like he's aged 10 years. Seabrook should be in the press box permanently but we all know the Hawks brass won't have the balls to do that 

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

They really need to take calls on Toews-Kane. It’s probably time to hit the button. 

I still think there's a good team in there somewhere. They've been decent to good based on advanced stats since the game vs. The Caps. They seem snakebit on offense lately. 

However, the thing that sucks is that Kane is the only one of the core 4 that is movable. They're just going to have to ride out the contracts of the other three. Toews and Seabrook have negative value based on their current play and Keith is going nowhere because of recapture penalties. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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13 minutes ago, Tony said:

Your putting way too much stock in a bad 6 games to say Toews has negative value. They wouldn’t receive a “haul” of players but I believe they could absolutely move him if made available. 
 

I didn’t mention Keith and Seabrook, because I’m aware of their value. 

Probably, but beside the resurgence in 2018-19, Toews has been on a steady decline since the 2016-17 season. 

His last 4 seasons:

2017: 21 G, 58 P

2018: 20 G, 52 P

2019: 35 G, 81 P

2020: 1 G 2 P in 9 games. 

One of these things is not like the other; one of these things does not belong. 

This is even more concerning, since 2016 Corsi/Fenwick:

 16 52.2/51.3

17 52.4/50.6

18 56.8/53.5

19 51.2/49.5

20 46.0/41.0 (8 games) 

Toews is following the Mike Richards aging curve. It is what it is. Nobody's buying that Toews' 2019 was anything other than a fluke. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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5 minutes ago, Tony said:

You’re wrong, but I’ve had one too many debates with you. You’ve made up your mind, will probably change it in a week, so it’s pointless to really take a deep dive into it. 

I hope you're right. 

I'd like nothing more than for Toews to prove all of the haters wrong. He's been my favorite Hawk since his debut in 2007. I own 3 different Toews jerseys lol. 

I want nothing more than for him to be great like last year. I'm pretty disappointed. I haven't made up my mind, this is what it looks like right now. I reserve the right to change my mind by mid-January. I'm incredibly disappointed in this season so far. 

I want to have this discussion if you're willing to. If you're going to argue SSS I agree, it's too early to tell one way or another. It doesn't look  good, and at this moment(which is what I'm arguing btw) it looks really bad. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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26 minutes ago, Tony said:

Like always, you have insane tunnel vision and can only look at things at surface level. 
 

1. You’re using 9 games to say his 2019-2020 season is and will be a disaster. That’s stupid. Don’t do that. 
2. Saying 2018-2019 was just a fluke is also stupid. He did it over a full season. He didn’t walk into a 4 HR game or something. So don’t do that either. 
3. What you aren’t taking into consideration is what Jonathan Toews is. A superstar in the NHL, the captain of the most current NHL dynasty, and what many consider to be one of the best leaders in the NHL. That carries value to a franchise looking to acquire a “name” player, to take their franchise to the next level. What if the Panthers and Q wanted to get some leadership with the kids down in Florida? All it takes is one team. 
 

You said he has negative value. You’re wrong.

There's always arguments amongst non-Hawks hockey fans about how good Toews actually was or is. There is a vocal portion of NHL fans that think that Toews was never a superstar and maybe even never produced at first line standards. I'm not making this argument because I actually think it. I think Toews can still turn it around. I'm posting these thoughts because this is what a lot of other team's fans think of him. I think Toews was great and he just had his best offensive season last year. His play has improved the last few games, but the entire team is snakebit. I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit.

I'd like to think that Toews has value around the league, but I do wonder if other teams value him as much as the Hawks do. He's kinda like the Hawks version of Jose Abreu in that way. It's just my opinion, but he's not worth moving if all they're getting in return is cap space and him out of the room. 

Based on what's happened, I'm content to collect lottery picks and bide the time until the core 4 are no longer under contract. They have a top 10 farm in the NHL, the future is bright. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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29 minutes ago, Tony said:

The bigger issue is with or without Toews or whoever else, can Bowman rebuild this thing? He’s done a lot to erode the trust of everyone over the last few years. 

I think almost every move Bowman's made since Q got fired has been really good, bad start from Strome notwithstanding. He had a really good offseason. Nylander looks really good since the scolding from Colliton, de Haan and Maatta have been solid additions. The issue isn't them, it's Toews, Kane, and Seabrook. Keith has been good after being freed from Gustafsson. Dach looks like a future star. The jury is still out on Boqvist, but I really like him. He seems like a guy that needs to play with NHLers to show his stuff. 

I can already see a future core of forwards here with Dach/DeBrincat/Nylander and maybe Strome. They need Boqvist to pan out badly, and they need someone from the Mitchell/Beaudin/Vlasic group to emerge. 

Quite frankly, all of the years of drafting low, trading picks for rentals, and paying players for winning have caught up with them. They're a victim of their own success. If you're going to point at the Penguins, you have to realize that Toews and Kane are not as good as Crosby and Malkin. Those two are on a different level entirely. They've been up against the cap for years, they haven't had any leverage in cap dump trades, etc. 

Regardless of what Teravainen is doing in NC and Schmaltz in Arizona, I'm convinced that it just wouldn't have happened here. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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35 minutes ago, Tony said:

The bigger issue is with or without Toews or whoever else, can Bowman rebuild this thing? He’s done a lot to erode the trust of everyone over the last few years. 

Dach, Boqvist, Mitchell is a nice start as far as potential star players. I'm assuming DeBrincat will definitely be around for a while (30-40+ goal scorers don't grow on trees). Would like to see the Hawks address a goalie in the future (I personally like Gravel but he isn't a Vasilevskiy type talent) but at least it's a solid start. Assuming the Hawks get another top 10 pick after this season if they still continue to suck that's another young player in the mix. 

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19 minutes ago, Tony said:

1. A lot of the damage done by Bowman was done before Q got fired 

2. Most everyone seemed to agree this was a playoff team this year. Not a favorite, but should get in with a lower seed. It’s early, but they don’t look close right now. Is that on the coach and staff? The big guys not playing well? Who put those people in place? Buck stops with Bowman, and right now the franchise isn’t in a good place. 

A metric shit ton of the damage done by Bowman was done from June 2015 to  the TDL in 2017. All of these moves revolve around the Brent Seabrook contract. 

Brent Seabrook has cost the Hawks Teravainen, Panarin, Saad for 2 years and indirectly Philip Danault. I actually really like Connor Murphy. That trade is closer than most think. (thanks Jay Zawaski) The demise of the Hawks can point to one move and one move only. Brent Seabrook's contract. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Panarin's 2 seasons with the Hawks hid a lot of deficiencies with the roster and gave them false hope. 

After 2015 it was over. It was fairly obvious. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Nylander has been fantastic. Kid is all over the ice offensively and on defense back checking like crazy. 

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19 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Nylander has been fantastic. Kid is all over the ice offensively and on defense back checking like crazy. 

His pass on I believe the third goal was ridiculous

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Hawks PK is now 17/18 with Lehner in net. They say your goalie is your best PK'er... that's how bad Crawford has been.

Edited by SoxAce

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31 minutes ago, Tony said:

Luckily I think he’ll start getting the bulk of games. 
 

5 goals tonight, Toews didn’t even get on the score sheet. Get your shit together 19

And only 1 GA, with a great defensive effort , with Seabrook out of the lineup... not a coincidence there.

Completely agree with Toews. Maybe he should be demoted to the 4th line. Seemed to wake Strome up. 

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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

You have to walk a very fine line when it comes to a player like Toews, especially being the captain, but it would be an incredibly ballsy move for JC to give him a healthy scratch for a game too. 
 

You can lose a guy/team that way too, he’d have to know the room and how JT May respond, but it may be the right wake up call. 

You heard his post game interview tonight? A reporter asked him how did Seabrook feel about being scratched. His response "doesn't matter, coaches decision". Thought that spoke volumes as well as telling me Seabs probably did not take it rather well.

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32 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

And only 1 GA, with a great defensive effort , with Seabrook out of the lineup... not a coincidence there.

Completely agree with Toews. Maybe he should be demoted to the 4th line. Seemed to wake Strome up. 

This game was the type of effort I was looking for combining the ability to play offense and defense in the same game.. Coincidence that it happened with Seabrook scratched ? Maybe. Given the back to back games, Seabrook's age and being on the ice for most of the goals last game allowed JC to say it was because of the back to back games. We'll see if Seabrook gets scratched again soon enough.

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Luckily I think he’ll start getting the bulk of games. 
 

I said this back on 10/21. It just seemed likely by that point.

Don't think you can scratch Toews unless you can say he's banged up. Toews suffers offensively because he takes his defensive responsibilities so seriously . He has to loosen up and allow everyone to do their jobs so he can do his on offense. I really hope he can start playing soon like he did last year but that would mean Kane has to be much more involved also.

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