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Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I love Robert but he’ll be a rookie and is unlikely to put up star level performance next year.  Look, seems like you’re fine burning one of the four remaining years of control for Moncada & Giolito, but I’d really like to accelerate things and not have to bank on a talented guy who has yet to have even a single one win season breaking out next year.

I'd rather use that money to lock up Moncada and Gio and keep that window open for a bit longer. I'd rather build a winning franchise than have "a window." Making sound investments seems like a better way to do that than signing Nick Castellanos. 

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I love Robert but he’ll be a rookie and is unlikely to put up star level performance next year.  Look, seems like you’re fine burning one of the four remaining years of control for Moncada & Giolito, but I’d really like to accelerate things and not have to bank on a talented guy who has yet to have even a single one win season breaking out next year.

This is the key, regardless of anything else.  We all know how well the Sox hang with the big boys in handing out $200+ million dollar contracts.  If a couple or more of our players are legit stars, good luck retaining them from the big spenders stealing them away.  They need to start winning now.

Edited by Moan4Yoan
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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

We got a gigantic head start and are finishing behind the astros and cubs. Maybe, just maybe, the front office is pretty crappy at running and should do something else.

The Astros rebuild took forever and they were cheating the whole way. The Cubs were extremely fortunate and have made some absolutely miserable moves to try to stay competitive. We aren't the Astros or the Cubs. I'll wait until about 2023 to tell you what I think of the rebuild. 

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19 hours ago, Sockin said:

 

Wow, what a spot on assessment.  Look, I hope the Sox have some reason to believe he’ll improve and not just age like many here cite.  Make me look like as asshole twelve months from now.  Unfortunately our track record of unlocking underperforming bats has been quite poor so I’m very much not optimistic at the moment.

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1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Astros rebuild took forever and they were cheating the whole way. The Cubs were extremely fortunate and have made some absolutely miserable moves to try to stay competitive. We aren't the Astros or the Cubs. I'll wait until about 2023 to tell you what I think of the rebuild. 

My view of the rebuild will be at the end of this year and next. They need to have a winning record this year and contend for the playoffs after that. Otherwise I will join the group of saying the FO needs to go because they failed in the rebuild. 

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Wow, what a spot on assessment.  Look, I hope the Sox have some reason to believe he’ll improve and not just age like many here cite.  Make me look like as asshole twelve months from now.  Unfortunately our track record of unlocking underperforming bats has been quite poor so I’m very much not optimistic at the moment.

I don't think they need a plus bat in RF to be competitive and can afford to take a lottery ticket on a once big time prospect who's still 24. I think they'll have plus bat's at C, SS, 3rd, LF, CF and possibly 1st and 2nd. That should be a good offense already. 

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6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Astros rebuild took forever and they were cheating the whole way. The Cubs were extremely fortunate and have made some absolutely miserable moves to try to stay competitive. We aren't the Astros or the Cubs. I'll wait until about 2023 to tell you what I think of the rebuild. 

Jeff Luhnow won the wild card in his 4th season. Theo Epstein won the wild card in year 4 and the world series in year 5. That we can't even hold ourselves to those standards with the gigantic fortunate head start we had, that those other teams didn't have, is utterly pathetic.

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10 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'd rather use that money to lock up Moncada and Gio and keep that window open for a bit longer. I'd rather build a winning franchise than have "a window." Making sound investments seems like a better way to do that than signing Nick Castellanos. 

And if and when those guys won't sign extensions (narrator; they shouldn't), then after 2021 they're at the same point Lindor is now. Do we trade them before all their value goes away?

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2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I don't think they need a plus bat in RF to be competitive and can afford to take a lottery ticket on a once big time prospect who's still 24. I think they'll have plus bat's at C, SS, 3rd, LF, CF and possibly 1st and 2nd. That should be a good offense already. 

If they aren't getting a plus bat then you need a plus glove.  Mazara is neither.  I mean yeah why should we be a good team?

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

Jeff Luhnow won the wild card in his 4th season. Theo Epstein won the wild card in year 4 and the world series in year 5. That we can't even hold ourselves to those standards with the gigantic fortunate head start we had, that those other teams didn't have, is utterly pathetic.

If we win the wild card this year will you stop crying? 

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1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Luhnow rebuilt the team in 3 years.

I've kind of lost track of all their rebuilds. Luhnow might also be banned from the sport for how they did it. Fingers crossed. 

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13 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'd rather use that money to lock up Moncada and Gio and keep that window open for a bit longer. I'd rather build a winning franchise than have "a window." Making sound investments seems like a better way to do that than signing Nick Castellanos. 

Until we lock them up, we have to operate under the assumption they leave after four years.

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2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

If we win the wild card this year will you stop crying? 

Yes. If we don't will you stop apologizing for these losers?

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Until we lock them up, we have to operate under the assumption they leave after four years.

AFter what the FA market did this year, I think you have to start talking about $250 million if you want to extend Moncada early and $200 million if you want to extend Giolito  early.

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Let's assume for a minute that the plan was to make a run at Castellanos or Ozuna. If that indeed was the plan, what happens if Ozuna signs somewhere else next week and Castellanos waits until February and ultimately signs somewhere else? Then you are out of luck in RF. As a backup plan, you could buy low on Mazara and use him as your everyday RF if no other acquisitions come to fruition. It sounds weird calling it a backup plan when you make the move BEFORE your attempt at another move, but you certainly wouldn't want to come away completely empty handed in RF. Guys like Mazara, Calhoun, etc. could be moved/gone already by the time Castellanos signs. It also gives you a little more leverage in negotiations with Castellanos because you are no longer desperate for a RF.

I have no idea if this was their line of thinking, but the point is that we need to see how the entire off-season unfolds before jumping off a cliff. 

Edited by SoxBlanco

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

AFter what the FA market did this year, I think you have to start talking about $250 million if you want to extend Moncada early and $200 million if you want to extend Giolito  early.

Perpetual rebuild. The will not pay $250M, they will trade Moncada.

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6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I don't think they need a plus bat in RF to be competitive and can afford to take a lottery ticket on a once big time prospect who's still 24. I think they'll have plus bat's at C, SS, 3rd, LF, CF and possibly 1st and 2nd. That should be a good offense already. 

Robert & Madrigal will be rookies next year.  Neither is likely to start 2020 on the big league roster, meaning the Engel’s & Mendick’s is the world will be starters for at least a month.  Our margin of error to compete next year is very slim and adding a wild card for RF instead of proven production narrowed those margins further.  Again, you seem ok throwing away 2020 and if that’s case I can get the Mazara move.  There is a chance he breaks out, but this move is a year too late given where the rest of the rebuild is at IMO.

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22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jeff Luhnow won the wild card in his 4th season. Theo Epstein won the wild card in year 4 and the world series in year 5. That we can't even hold ourselves to those standards with the gigantic fortunate head start we had, that those other teams didn't have, is utterly pathetic.

I wouldnt say the Sox had a gigantic head start on the Astros. The Sox did acquire talent in trades that the Astros didn't have, however the Sox didnt have the 4 or 5 straight 100 loss seasons to get the highest draft picks either. The Sox had high ones but not to that extreme.

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16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Robert & Madrigal will be rookies next year.  Neither is likely to start 2020 on the big league roster, meaning the Engel’s & Mendick’s is the world will be starters for at least a month.  Our margin of error to compete next year is very slim and adding a wild card for RF instead of proven production narrowed those margins further.  Again, you seem ok throwing away 2020 and if that’s case I can get the Mazara move.  There is a chance he breaks out, but this move is a year too late given where the rest of the rebuild is at IMO.

It's not at least a month. 

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15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Robert & Madrigal will be rookies next year.  Neither is likely to start 2020 on the big league roster, meaning the Engel’s & Mendick’s is the world will be starters for at least a month.  Our margin of error to compete next year is very slim and adding a wild card for RF instead of proven production narrowed those margins further.  Again, you seem ok throwing away 2020 and if that’s case I can get the Mazara move.  There is a chance he breaks out, but this move is a year too late given where the rest of the rebuild is at IMO.

What is throwing away a season to you? I dont think a winning season is throwing it away. Even if they sign Castellanos they aren't making the playoffs with everything else you mentioned. The upgrade in RF would not put them in contention for the WS this year.

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18 minutes ago, Cashman said:

Perpetual rebuild. The will not pay $250M, they will trade Moncada.

Look what they did for Abreu. Are you saying this is not a loyal organization? The knock on the organization is that they are usually too loyal.

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I wouldnt say the Sox had a gigantic head start on the Astros. The Sox did acquire talent in trades that the Astros didn't have, however the Sox didnt have the 4 or 5 straight 100 loss seasons to get the highest draft picks either. The Sox had high ones but not to that extreme.

Also, all the injuries slowed the rebuild way down. I remember when people were saying "2020 Vision." Then everyone got hurt.

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They will have 2 rookies in the starting rotation (I still count Cease as one).  That isn't usually the makeup of a team that makes the playoffs.

I think 2020 will be interesting for development purposes but I just cannot envision them competing until the end

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