Crede on Block?

[sayitaintso]

Actually Joe crushed a few balls last night I believe, they were just in the vicinity of Drew.

Yeah he did. One Drew got a bad jump on and just caught it at the last second. It looked like it was going right off the centerfield fence, but Drew caught up to it.

[Y2HH]

Leave Crede alone, he plays good Defense and his average offense has been 'good enough'.

 

If we are going to deal anyone and take on money, I say we get Roy Oswalt...he's young, and he's F'ing GREAT (and not TOO expensive). We get him and we have the best pitching the majors by far. One extra bat in the lineup wont help us come playoff time...but an extra ACE would.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I know that many here would jump off the ledge but if we packaged Crede, B-Mac, Anderson and another top guy (Gio, Sweeney, Fields, etc.) for Oswalt and Ensberg I'd jump for joy and clear some time in October

[Y2HH]

Not me...I'd partake in that!

 

I know that many here would jump off the ledge but if we packaged Crede, B-Mac, Anderson and another top guy (Gio, Sweeney, Fields, etc.) for Oswalt and Ensberg I'd jump for joy and clear some time in October

[BHAMBARONS]

Hypothetically, even with edwin encarnacion the Reds would do a Randa for Crede swap right?

 

 

The Reds are grooming Edwin to be the future 3rd baseman as is so I believe they would do

[sayitaintso]

I know that many here would jump off the ledge but if we packaged Crede, B-Mac, Anderson and another top guy (Gio, Sweeney, Fields, etc.) for Oswalt and Ensberg I'd jump for joy and clear some time in October

I would be shocked at first, then i would jump for joy.

[JTC2784]

I know that many here would jump off the ledge but if we packaged Crede, B-Mac, Anderson and another top guy (Gio, Sweeney, Fields, etc.) for Oswalt and Ensberg I'd jump for joy and clear some time in October

 

no way... Ensberg's horrible away from the Juicebox....

[Steve9347]

Joe Crede is what we have seen. I really don't see someone who does what he does breaking out and becoming Scott Rolen, or even David Wright.

 

The problem is, Crede doesn't know what he wants to be. I honestly think that he can hit .280, hell even .300, but then he has no power and will just spray singles to right field.

 

I think we have our choice of two Crede's.

 

a) 20 home run Crede, with a .235 average

B) 10 home run Crede, with a .260-.270 average.

 

I don't think we will get power with the average, but one or the other.

[LosMediasBlancas]

On THIS team, I'll take the Crede with the higher average and less power.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

you are right about his road numbers. I hadn't realized his splits were so pronounced three years running. We do have a hitters park too though

[sayitaintso]

On THIS team, I'll take the Crede with the higher average and less power.

Ditto

[nvxplorer]

Crede's defense is far more valuable than Randa's bat. The Sox play too many close games to give up any defense. The addition of one bat, which may hit 35 points higher, is not going to change that. Overall, the few extra runs that Randa could create would be negated by the few extra he gives up.

[southsideirish71]

Crede's defense is far more valuable than Randa's bat. The Sox play too many close games to give up any defense. The addition of one bat, which may hit 35 points higher, is not going to change that. Overall, the few extra runs that Randa could create would be negated by the few extra he gives up.

 

Where did you get the idea that Randa wasnt a good defender. I hate when people just say, oh Randa will hit better but we will lose out in the glove depart. Check out fielding percentage numbers, range factor and other fielding stats. The guy has been for years a solid glove over at third. Just because you see Crede lay out a few times we think he is a gold glover. Its not the case.

 

Randa gives us consistancy with the stick and he knows theleague.

 

And remember how is Crede going to be when Boras negotiates during arbitration. How do you think that is going to go.

[Balta1701]

And remember how is Crede going to be when Boras negotiates during arbitration.  How do you think that is going to go.

 

I seriously think Boras will get his ass handed to him in arbitration based on the fact that Crede's been all-around underperforming.

[sayitaintso]

I seriously think Boras will get his ass handed to him in arbitration based on the fact that Crede's been all-around underperforming.

Hopefully Boras gets his ass handed to him, i hate that prick.

[nvxplorer]

Where did you get the idea that Randa wasnt a good defender.  I hate when people just say, oh Randa will hit better but we will lose out in the glove depart.  Check out fielding percentage numbers, range factor and other fielding stats.  The guy has been for years a solid glove over at third.  Just because you see Crede lay out a few times we think he is a gold glover.  Its not the case. 

 

Randa gives us consistancy with the stick and he knows theleague.

 

And remember how is Crede going to be when Boras negotiates during arbitration.  How do you think that is going to go.

I don't think Randa is a poor defender, just not as good as Crede. My point was that one non-power bat isn't going to produce a whole lot of extra runs. The difference between .250 and .290 over the rest of the season is 12 hits (est. 300 ABs). The added offense from 12 extra hits is negligible. Likewise, the reduction in defense from Randa is negligible as well. It's a wash, basically. Therefore, with the team built around defense, it's wiser to stick with Crede.

 

Contract negotiations are a different story, and I may agree with you on that, but that's for the offseason.

Edited June 20, 2005 by nvxplorer

[southsideirish71]

I don't think Randa is a poor defender, just not as good as Crede. My point was that one non-power bat isn't going to produce a whole lot of extra runs. The difference between .250 and .290 over the rest of the season is 12 hits (est. 300 ABs). The added offense from 12 extra hits is negligible. Likewise, the reduction in defense from Randa is negligible as well. It's a wash, basically. Therefore, with the team built around defense, it's wiser to stick with Crede.

 

Contract negotiations are a different story, and I may agree with you on that, but that's for the offseason.

 

 

There is more to this than just 12 hits. Crede has a problem putting the ball in play effectively at times. He pops up, strikes out, or grounds it to 3rd or SS. Hitting the ball to the right side to move a runner, being able to bunt a runner over, being able to make contact and lift the ball into the air for a sacrifice is what Randa brings to the table over Crede. Granted if someone groves a breaking pitch center in Crede will crush it. But if they throw it away he is dead meat.

 

When the playoffs come its not like we will be in a slug fest. It may come down to execution. This is the place where crede is lacking. Sure he can catch a ball, but can he put the bat on the ball in situational hitting when we need him to. And my vote is no. He will pop up/k/or GO.

[Dam8610]

Since we're on the subject of 3B possibilities, here are some of the guys that aren't mentioned very often (if at all) that I think the Sox might want to look at (based on their stats...I have no idea how these guys play 3B):

 

Felipe Lopez (25 YO) - .295/.342/.533 with 11 HR 39 RBI. Plays all IF positions except 1B.

 

Jorge Cantu (23 YO) - .309/.333/.500 with 9 HR 35 RBI. Plays 2B and 3B.

 

Pedro Feliz (30 YO) - .272/.312/.424 with 8 HR 40 RBI. Plays corner infield and corner outfield positions. He appears to be hitting slightly below average this season.

 

Bill Hall (26 YO) - .289/.332/.516 with 8 HR 27 RBI. Plays all IF positions except 1B.

 

Ryan Freel (29 YO) - .287/.406/.403 with 2 HR 9 RBI 21 SB. Plays 2B, 3B, and LF.

 

Chad Tracy (25 YO) - .292/.323/.469 with 7 HR 28 RBI. Plays both corner infield positions.

 

I don't know which of those will be available, but Cantu, Lopez, Tracy, and Freel are very interesting candidates to me.

[elrockinMT]

"You could make a deal for Crede right now."  Interesting.  If he's so atrocious, I wonder why all these GM's would want him.

 

 

The talk that you hear from Ozzie and kenny is that they recognize the talent Crede has and will be patient with him. The plus that Joe has is his fielding, which is much above average. I think Crede is in the same category that Jon Garland was in and that's wait for him to develop. There most certainly doesn't seem to be any reason to rush into a trade.

[ISF]

This thread makes me ponder where all the Chavez threads went...

[nvxplorer]

There is more to this than just 12 hits.  Crede has a problem putting the ball in play effectively at times.  He pops up, strikes out, or grounds it to 3rd or SS.  Hitting the ball to the right side to move a runner, being able to bunt a runner over, being able to make contact and lift the ball into the air for a sacrifice is what Randa brings to the table over Crede.  Granted if someone groves a breaking pitch center in Crede will crush it.  But if they throw it away he is dead meat. 

 

When the playoffs come its not like we will be in a slug fest.  It may come down to execution.  This is the place where crede is lacking.  Sure he can catch a ball, but can he put the bat on the ball in situational hitting when we need him to.  And my vote is no.  He will pop up/k/or GO.

You make good points, but I don't think they are significant enough to warrant a trade. If Crede was lacking in defense, or if Randa was a homerun hitter, it would be different. You may be correct in comparing their approaches, but neither one is good or bad 100% of the time. Crede doesn't fail every AB, and Randa doesn't succeed every AB. There's not enough difference between the two, nor do the Sox have that much of a need to make the trade.

[RockRaines]

This thread makes me ponder where all the Chavez threads went...

I will get those rumors started again, you bet I will.

[Kalapse]

WILL NOT BE TRADED---->Felipe Lopez (25 YO) -

 

WILL NOT BE TRADED---->Jorge Cantu (23 YO)

 

Pedro Feliz (30 YO) -

 

WILL NOT BE TRADED---->Bill Hall (25 YO)

 

WILL NOT BE TRADED---->Ryan Freel (29 YO)

 

WILL NOT BE TRADED---->Chad Tracy (25 YO)

 

I don't know why you'd be looking at some top prospects on these teams. Just because they're on bad teams doesn't mean they'll be trade. Freel is a little older but he is cheap and plays a ton of positions. Lopez, Cantu, Hall and Tracey are all top prospects for their respective teams.

 

Bill Hall will be thier for the long hall, most likey moved to 3rd base once J.J. Hardy shows that he can play a reliable SS. Hall, Hardy, Weeks and Fielder, that will be a great infield in the future.

 

Lopez was a former first round pick of the Blue Jays and was part of a four way deal envolving Elmer Dessens when he was good and Erubial Durazo leaving Arizona. He is finally comming into his own at the age of 25 and will not be leaving Cincy.

 

I don't know what the hell San Fran is thinkning so Feliz may be traded.

[Dam8610]

Okay. I kind of thought the likelihood of the youngsters being traded was slim, but what about Freel? He'd fit perfectly with the "smallball" philosophy, with his .406 OBP and 21 SB, and he's 29 years old, so it's not like he's a top prospect or anything.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Dam8610

[Kalapse]

Okay. I kind of thought the likelihood of the youngsters being traded was slim, but what about Freel? He'd fit perfectly with the "smallball" philosophy, with his .406 OBP and 21 SB, and he's 29 years old, so it's not like he's a top prospect or anything.

Freel is a little older but he is cheap and plays a ton of positions.