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Cleveland Indians @ Chicago White Sox - Game Thread

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 04:02 PM)
Oh great...the legend of Paul Byrd...the only man to even slow down the White Sox in the playoffs in 05...

 

Another expert in Maysiology, the science of low and away. Overly aggresive hitters and pull hitters are pawns of those who practice Maysiology. Founder Joe Mays and his breakthrough theorums of if my 87 mph fastball is spotted low and away, they cannot resist the urge to rip and jack it out of the park, only to find that the ball bounces nicely to the 3rd baseman and shortstop.

 

 

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Cleveland
Grady Sizemore CF .275
Asdrubal Cabrera 2B .316
Travis Hafner DH .253
Ryan Garko 1B .291
Jhonny Peralta SS .270
Franklin Gutierrez RF .270
Jason Michaels LF .268
Casey Blake 3B .266
Kelly Shoppach C .275
  Paul Byrd (14-6, 4.34)


Chicago WSox
Jerry Owens CF .248
Scott Podsednik LF .260
Jim Thome DH .271
Paul Konerko 1B .260
Jermaine Dye RF .252
Juan Uribe SS .224
Danny Richar 2B .202
Andy Gonzalez 3B .200
Donny Lucy C .500
  John Danks (6-13, 5.41)

Umpires: HP: Rob Drake. 1B: Gerry Davis. 2B: Brian Gorman. 3B: Paul Nauert.

 

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Danks give up a homer in the top of the second to Garko. How many homers has he given up a million this year? Floyd at 3 million allowed. We have a runner is scoring position (Pods with a single and a SB) but our big guns can't do anything of course.

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Man it seems like I haven't seen one of Danks' real good hooks in a long time. He's going to need that pitch if he wants to be successful. His fastball/changeup combo is okay but certainly not good enough to get by without an accomanying third pitch (breaking ball).

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 12:53 AM)
Man it seems like I haven't seen one of Danks' real good hooks in a long time. He's going to need that pitch if he wants to be successful. His fastball/changeup combo is okay but certainly not good enough to get by without an accomanying third pitch (breaking ball).

 

I just don't see it with Danks. His fastball is nowhere near what I thought it was going to be, and he's wild in the strike zone. I'm not even sure you can count on him as a #5 next year, but I know he'll probably be our 4.

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With Tampa winning and Florida in a close game, how ironic would it be if we go into sole possession of last place in baseball today on the day we extend Ozzie?

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 07:57 PM)
I just don't see it with Danks. His fastball is nowhere near what I thought it was going to be, and he's wild in the strike zone. I'm not even sure you can count on him as a #5 next year, but I know he'll probably be our 4.

Oh come on. The kid is completely spent. He is up a year early. I bet we see him shave at least a run off this ERA next year.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 12:57 AM)
I just don't see it with Danks. His fastball is nowhere near what I thought it was going to be, and he's wild in the strike zone. I'm not even sure you can count on him as a #5 next year, but I know he'll probably be our 4.

 

You could make the argument that Danks should've been in AAA this season. He's been better than the average #5 this season. I don't see the #2 starter that people were talking about when Danks was dominating back in May, but I can see him being a left-handed Jon Garland (sans the 2005 season) for several seasons.

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 12:58 AM)
Oh come on. The kid is completely spent. He is up a year early. I bet we see him shave at least a run off this ERA next year.

 

He has got to learn a cut fastball. A 90 mph straight fastball won't cut it in the Cell. You and I have talked at length about how bad his mechanics got once May went by the board.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 07:57 PM)
I just don't see it with Danks. His fastball is nowhere near what I thought it was going to be, and he's wild in the strike zone. I'm not even sure you can count on him as a #5 next year, but I know he'll probably be our 4.

 

I think the truth is that he isn't very good. He doesn't have much stuff and his control is actually pretty bad. I'll admit I know squat about pitching (hence starting the post with "I think") but his mechanics look terrible. He flies all over the place. Scouts said his ceiling was a #3, but I don't see him ever being more than a fringe major leaguer. He just doesn't have the raw stuff to do it, or the control.

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It has been a battle for Danks for at least the last month. 76 pitches in 2 and 2/3 tonight and he was all over the place. He is not attacking the strike zone at all.

 

The tv guys were talking about how many balls seem to go off Richar's glove and they commented how he kind of short arms when he needs to dive for a ball, stating Richar should have knocked Hafner's base hit down at least. I would agree with them, it is something he needs to be better at.

 

As for Danks, I think not only is he spent but he's confused and lacking confidence and slightly askew mechanically.

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Excellent analysis on Richar, Poplar. He is able to get in a good position with his quickness, but he just doesn't make the plays that should be made. It's one of the reasons I said his defense has been nowhere near as good as some on this board think it's been.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 07:00 PM)
He has got to learn a cut fastball. A 90 mph straight fastball won't cut it in the Cell. You and I have talked at length about how bad his mechanics got once May went by the board.

its all about command with danks, to me...a cutter would certainly be a weapon.....but right now to me theres really no difference in stuff between danks and lets say rich hill or even sean marshall......while those guys havent been great for the cubs, they have been very solid for young pitchers......the thing is those guys both command their curve balls much better than danks, which, at least for hill, allows him to climb the latter and get the high strikeout with his 92 mph heater

 

on another note i really hope this late season power surge (as he had last year) doesn't fool KW or ozzie into thinking he should be the starting SS next year.....not that there are that many options...just sayin

Edited by daa84

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QUOTE(daa84 @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 01:08 AM)
its all about command with danks, to me...a cutter would certainly be a weapon.....but right now to me theres really no difference in stuff between danks and lets say rich hill or even sean marshall......while those guys havent been great for the cubs, they have been very solid for young pitchers......the thing is those guys both command their curve balls much better than danks, which, at least for hill, allows him to climb the latter and get the high strikeout with his 92 mph heater

 

Like you said....Hill probably gets as many swings and misses on his fastball, which is around 92 mph, than pitchers who are throwing 98 and 99 mph. It's because he gets them sitting on the big, slow hook, and then he throws the high fastball past him. However, Hill is a real bad pitcher when he doesn't have that command, and throws his fastball down in the zone. Hopefully Danks develops, as I'm definitely not giving up on him. I think I was just expecting more as the season went on, especially due to how he's developed over the course of seasons in his career.

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QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 08:06 PM)
It has been a battle for Danks for at least the last month. 76 pitches in 2 and 2/3 tonight and he was all over the place. He is not attacking the strike zone at all.

 

I think it's been more than month...his control and (I think) mechanics have bad since prior to the ASB. If there was one guy Cooper should be earning his money fixing, it's Danks given what the Sox traded to get him. I haven't seen any significant changes. If they aren't going to do anything with him, they should just shut him down.

 

I do agree that the Sox being a terrible defensive team does not him in the least.

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Excellent analysis on Richar, Poplar. He is able to get in a good position with his quickness, but he just doesn't make the plays that should be made. It's one of the reasons I said his defense has been nowhere near as good as some on this board think it's been.

 

He is a young guy who theoretically should improve and they are giving him an extended shot. I think they need a Mark Loretta type at 2B next year to pair with him, at a minimum. I see some good things but would not say I'm terribly impressed with any aspect of his game. But again, he is green so hopefully he will make progress.

 

Danks mound presence was disconcerting to me. He looked like "get me out of here". I hate hammering young players but some of these guys worry me.

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 07:10 PM)
Like you said....Hill probably gets as many swings and misses on his fastball, which is around 92 mph, than pitchers who are throwing 98 and 99 mph. It's because he gets them sitting on the big, slow hook, and then he throws the high fastball past him. However, Hill is a real bad pitcher when he doesn't have that command, and throws his fastball down in the zone. Hopefully Danks develops, as I'm definitely not giving up on him. I think I was just expecting more as the season went on, especially due to how he's developed over the course of seasons in his career.

yeah i def. agree, i think we got a little spoiled with danks' early outings, and quite frankly i didnt think hed slide like this...he had a good K rate early, and if anything was about unlucky with the defense we provided him...i mean the thing with danks is that hes so young still....hes really only a year older than garland when garland came into the league, and he has alreayd proven that he at least has the ability to pitch well in the majors....i think when he started off so hot, i foolishly expected a mark buerhle-esque debut where he would come up, succeed, and succeed consistently right away, which the reality is that that just isnt the norm for young pitchers

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broadway has given up a few flyballs that were just missed, but i must admit, ive been more impressed with his stuff so far than i thought i would ....good movement and a changeup that if he can gain command of looks like a decent pitch

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I know he has a two rbi single, but why are the Sox so scared of Hafner? His OPS against the Sox coming into this game was almost as low as Jerry Owens' season OPS.

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QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 11, 2007 -> 07:39 PM)
Nice job by Broadway, he definitely has a feel for pitching and is composed out there.

hes thrown a few changeups that have really impressed me, i thought it was a fringe type pitch, with his curve and fastball being bread and butter, but he has shown a good change if he can command it, and nice movement on the fastball

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