southsideirish71 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:54 PM) Can we get some f***ing pitching into this organization please? Remember Nick, lift and pull. That wont be a problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The White Sox officially have zero prospects in the minors now. Swisher's not a bad ballplayer (Love the OBP) but he's not a CF nor a leadoff man so what need is he filling for '08? And past Buehrle and Vazquez, relying on the combo of Danks, Floyd and Contreras to fill the rotation out is nothing short of praying for a miracle. If one of them failed, at least there was a backup plan. Now there isn't any. We'll be lucky to see 70+ wins this yr and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyozuna Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) BTW, good riddance to Ryan Sweeney, one of the most overrated prospects I've ever seen. THANK YOU! This is dead on. Your quote saved me from leaving soxtalk due to all the idiots that can't see how good a deal this is. Also, Kenny can trade Konerko/Crede/Uribe/Dye either before the season or during the season to get back prospects. Considering how bad our farm system is we can rebuild with other teams prospects. AS Far as those who say O-Cab as our leadoff. Not going to happen. He was picked up to be a number two hitter and thats where he is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) That wont be a problem here. This is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:54 PM) Can we get some f***ing pitching into this organization please? Remember Nick, lift and pull. Well...it'll be another draft by Kenny taking 98% pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) Stats, FWIW... FPct: .986 (would be around 15th of 18 qualified CF) RF: 2.62 (would be around 12th of same) ZR: .836 (would be around 17th of same) Had 1 OF assist Not looking great statistically. But that may not be a great measure, with his limited time there. IMPORTANT NOTE: He had barely ever played CF before 2007 (3 innings TOTAL at major league level), so he was in learning mode. If he can learn... Ya, I appreciate the post but no offense, I'm just not a huge fan of defense stats. Would definitely love to talk to someone who has seen him play out there a number of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaCWS Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:37 PM) i think some people here might be overvaluing DLS and Gio, No, I don't think you can ever overvalue pitching. The point is not that people think (necessarily) that Gio or DLS were guaranteed stars, the point is that we currently have major question marks in the rotation, and the more depth you have, the more chance that one of these guys will pan out. Right now we have two guaranteed losses every week in Contreras and Floyd. And what if Danks regresses? I'm somewhat high on Broadway, but not Masset or Egbert. And who else is there? Edited January 3, 2008 by FlaCWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Nick Swisher will either be a big OPS and power guy for us for the next 4 years, or he'll be an inexpensive piece of trade bait in a couple of years when we have to rebuild. This is the opposite direction I would have gone in - we need more guys like Gio and De Los Santos and less like Jermaine Dye - but I like the move in that it gives us a pretty good outfielder who still has potential and is very affordable. As it has been pointed out - this is about it for our farm system. We're down to about 3 good prospects and might only have 1 in the top 100. If this works out for us, that would be great, but I can't start getting too excited about this organization until we have a couple of building blocks for the future. We need a solid starting pitcher now. That should be our goal. Also, Brian Roberts would fit on this team perfectly if we had anyone who might interest Baltimore in a trade (except Fields and Danks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:58 PM) Ya, I appreciate the post but no offense, I'm just not a huge fan of defense stats. Would definitely love to talk to someone who has seen him play out there a number of times. I think the most important point in there is that he hadn't played CF before 2007. Which means he's not going to be great at it, but also means he is likely to improve in 2008. By the way, just looked - also no CF in the minors for Nick. He was a true rookie at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) I think the most important point in there is that he hadn't played CF before 2007. Which means he's not going to be great at it, but also means he is likely to improve in 2008. By the way, just looked - also no CF in the minors for Nick. He was a true rookie at it. Definitely a good point. It'll be interesting what the Sox have planned with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. Actually, I think Gio would have been next in line. Now its Egbert or Broadway. Maybe Haeger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. Gio would have had a shot, DLS obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(SnB @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:31 AM) 3 pretty high rated prospects for just about any player is alot. He overpaid right now, with the position the team is in, but I like this deal because it has such a high upside. Swisher could be a huge centerpiece for this team for a long time. I got to be honest, none of these guys would be top 3 prospects in a good farm system. Sweeney would have been high in any system two years ago, this year he'd probably be borderline top 5 in a good system. DSL is three years away and a ball prospects are very risky. Bottom line is the odds are greater that his value would have taken a crap within the next 3 years than he ends up panning out (This is coming from someone who loves DSL). I've always said, I got zero problem maximizing your trade value of prospects as long as you get guys who can help you long term (and Swish will be here a long time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqua's Mailman Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(Allsox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) The White Sox officially have zero prospects in the minors now. Swisher's not a bad ballplayer (Love the OBP) but he's not a CF nor a leadoff man so what need is he filling for '08? And past Buehrle and Vazquez, relying on the combo of Danks, Floyd and Contreras to fill the rotation out is nothing short of praying for a miracle. If one of them failed, at least there was a backup plan. Now there isn't any. We'll be lucky to see 70+ wins this yr and beyond. And how exactly would the Sox be better than 70 wins if they hadn't made the trade? Would De Los Santos have helped this year? No... In 2009? Doubtful... Sweeney was not in the plans at all and Gio is an open question.... The Sox may only win 70 games this year but their chances of winning more games this year improved with this trade... they did not decrease... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. Not this year, but next year they would have. Now if Floyd/Danks fail, we have to go to more reclamation projects or fringy prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:25 PM) Swisher really should be our leadoff hitter. I sure wouldn't mind it. Fathom, were you the one that started the "have Thome lead off" theoretical discussion? If you go on the Lineup Analysis tool on baseballmusings.com, you add in players with projected (or historical) OBP and SLG numbers and it spits out the lineup order that creates the optimal expected number of runs. It puts Thome leading off in every one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It's definitely not overpaying. Considering how long Swisher's under control, that's the price you're gonna pay. But I wonder if it's an example of a GM who doesn't have the long-term health of the franchise in mind. KW's not on the hot seat now, but he knows that could change very quickly. Decimate the farm system to buy a couple years, if not a legitimate shot at a title. So, looking at our remaining 6th starters, we have Egbert, Haeger, and Broadway. I guess it could be worse. Oh, wait -- Masset. Wow, that got worse fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Per rotoworld White Sox acquired outfielder Nick Swisher from the Athletics for LHP Gio Gonzalez, outfielder Ryan Sweeney and RHP Fautino De Los Santos. It's going to be interesting to see how the White Sox try to fit these pieces together. If they're willing to use Swisher in center field, they're improving their lineup immensely with the deal, though it's at a steep cost in the team's top two pitching prospects and the still promising Sweeney. If they're doing it with the idea of using Swisher in left field, leaving no room for Carlos Quentin, then the deal could prove to be a major bust. We're guessing they'll pencil him into center for now but continue to look for alternatives. Either way, Swisher gets a nice upgrade in fantasy value with the switch to the AL's best home run park. He'll be a threat to hit 35-40, especially if the White Sox are smart enough to hit him second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:39 AM) Then we'd be a serious contender, too bad we probably don't even have one prospect that Baltimore would want at this point. But could Paul Konerko, Joe Crede and prospects get that deal done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(Wanne @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:58 PM) Well...it'll be another draft by Kenny taking 98% pitching. And then trading 98% of the pitchers he drafts. I don't know if I like the trade or not. Thins out the minors even more, Swisher seems at first glance to be more of the same type of player the Sox already have, probably doesn't address CF, definitely doesn't address leadoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I dont understand why people are so sure O-Cab will hit 2. Who cares if they brought him in to bat 2nd, thats not how this team is set up right now. If Swisher bats first you are taking one of your best hitters and reducing his ability. It would have been like saying Big Frank should bat first. He had a high obp, etc. But you want him to drive in runs. The reason O-Cab will lead off is that there is just no other options barring a trade. Why you would sacrifice Swisher's effectiveness when we just traded our top 3 prospects for him would be stupid. And Chisoxfn is right, just because they are our top 3 spects doesnt mean crap. If you have 7 people who all hit under .250, three of them are still going to be the "top hitters". So does that mean you couldnt trade them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think this furthers the need to re-sign Freddy Garcia on a rehab deal. We need that insurance given our lack of depth now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:40 AM) That's all fine and dandy, but what Rowand is saying -- and rightfully so -- is that the wins that Swisher is adding to this team isn't taking us from being a contender to a top-of-the-AL team -- it takes us from being a mediocre team to being an average team. Look at our roster and compare it to Detroit, Cleveland, Anahiem, New York and Boston. We're still MILES behind each and every one of those clubs. And we have no farm system. I agree that we have the making of a nice, youngish core. But we need our minor league system to supplement that, and now there's nothing down there that looks like it'll be able to do that. Broadway? Give me a break. One start and now he's comparable to Gio? Shelby looks nice, but when he's your top prospect, you're in an assload of trouble. And Gio/Sweeney/DSL were going to be the answer? Sweeney is still suspect and the Sox actually got value for him (I should note, if I were an opposing GM I'd have traded for Ryan cause I think he'd be a steal in the sense that you buy low and it could really pay off in the long term). What I'm saying is the Sox are now in a better spot to contend in 09. I honestly think that quietly Kenny is turning his attention to getting as many quality guys he can for 2009 and hoping maybe things work out perfectly in 08 but if it doesn't you'll see him making tons of moves at the deadline to try to get things in place for 09. Hell have you seen me call the Sox a contender in this thread? I've only said they could maybe slug there way, hoping that the offense can carry them completely while the young pitchers develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:05 PM) But could Paul Konerko, Joe Crede and prospects get that deal done? No. Baltimore is doing a long-term rebuild. They won't touch Crede, and Konerko does nothing for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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