Dye to Reds Speculation

[ThunderBolt]

If we get Homer Bailey, and at least a B+ offensive prospect from the Reds, I will give serious consideration to naming my first child after Kenny Williams.

[RockRaines]

1. Freel CF

2. Getz 2B

3. Q RF

4. Thome DH

5 Kong 1b

6. Alexei SS

7. AJP C

8. Fields LF

9. Viciedo 3B

 

1. Buehrle

2. Floyd

3. Danks

4. Javy

5. Bailey

Edited November 25, 2008 by RockRaines

[fathom]

1. Freel CF

2. Getz 2B

3. Q RF

4. Thome DH

5 Kong 1b

6. Alexei SS

7. AJP C

8. Fields LF

9. Viciedo 3B

 

1. Buehrle

2. Floyd

3. Danks

4. Javy

5. Bailey

 

Yuck yuck yuck. Not only would that team have a payroll of about 75 million, but it would likely cost KW and Ozzie their jobs. Bailey was throwing 91 mph last season, and there's serious concerns about just how he got his velocity up to the 96-97 mph range when he was younger.

[daa84]

1. Freel CF

2. Getz 2B

3. Q RF

4. Thome DH

5 Kong 1b

6. Alexei SS

7. AJP C

8. Fields LF

9. Viciedo 3B

 

1. Buehrle

2. Floyd

3. Danks

4. Javy

5. Bailey

im not a fan of that lineup at all...3 enourmous unknowns in getz fields and viciedo....plus freel who hasn't ever really had a starting gig, and has never played in the AL...Do people really think viciedo is gonna play right away? I sure don't ....Alexei was nearly sent to AAA and still took a month and half to break the lineup at the age of 26....I'll be shocked if he's on the major league roster next year...

Edited November 25, 2008 by daa84

[fathom]

Tell me this roster can't win at least 80 in our division.

 

It wouldn't. Richard is a better bet to be a decent starting pitcher in the AL than Bailey in 2009. Freel is so incredibly overrated, and he can't stay healthy due to his reckless style of play.

[Fotop]

I disagree.

 

I'd much rather Wade Davis.

 

Jackson peripherals indicate he wouldn't be a success at the Cell, and he'd probably give up too many HR's.

 

I highly doubt TB would move Wade Davis. Much more likely to deal Sonnenstine or Jackson, so if Williams were able to swing Davis he'd continue to prove his awesomeness.

 

Davis > Bailey > Jackson, IMO.

 

In general, I don't think the Reds matchup well because outside of Bailey and the untouchables (Votto, Bruce, Volquez, and Cueto) they don't really have many attractive trading chips.

 

Also, just say no to Ryan Freel. He's old, can't stay healthy or run anymore, and is a utility player at best on a good team.

[RockRaines]

Yuck yuck yuck. Not only would that team have a payroll of about 75 million, but it would likely cost KW and Ozzie their jobs. Bailey was throwing 91 mph last season, and there's serious concerns about just how he got his velocity up to the 96-97 mph range when he was younger.

So....its a bad thing to have room on the payroll?

 

And I think the #1 and #2 hitters have a better OBP and better speed than our team last season. The bottom of the order also has speed and power potential. I really dont mind it at all. MPH is MPH, the guy is a 22 year old highly talented prospect, I would take him in a heartbeat.

[RockRaines]

im not a fan of that lineup at all...3 enourmous unknowns in getz fields and viciedo....plus freel who hasn't ever really had a starting gig, and has never played in the AL...Do people really think viciedo is gonna play right away? I sure don't ....Alexei was nearly sent to AAA and still took a month and half to break the lineup at the age of 26....I'll be shocked if he's on the major league roster next year...

The only reason it took him that long to break the starting lineup is because of Juan Uribe. I will bet on Viciedo starting for us out of ST.

[GreatScott82]

i agree. Just because Reiny wants to trim the payroll alittle bit, it doesnt mean he doesnt want his team to contend... KW and JR both made that clear. Pretty much JR just wants KW to be creative, kind of like how he was in 2005. Trade Dye for some young pitchers while getting rid of that 24 million owed to him- okay good. Now you have a good chunk of change to use on free agency or even aqcuirering a guy like Roberts via trade.

[CanOfCorn]

The only reason it took him that long to break the starting lineup is because of Juan Uribe. I will bet on Viciedo starting for us out of ST.

 

That may be, but having Fields in left AGAIN isn't going to happen. There's no way. He'll either be starting 3B on the Sox or moved as a part of a trade. But, that experiment is ova.

[fathom]

So....its a bad thing to have room on the payroll?

 

And I think the #1 and #2 hitters have a better OBP and better speed than our team last season. The bottom of the order also has speed and power potential. I really dont mind it at all. MPH is MPH, the guy is a 22 year old highly talented prospect, I would take him in a heartbeat.

 

That's the problem with Bailey. He's lost his big fastball, and his command has never been good. He's another miserable season away or two from being considered a flop. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind seeing him in our organization, but if you trade away Dye, you better find some offensive players via other trades or via free agency.

[fathom]

i agree. Just because Reiny wants to trim the payroll alittle bit, it doesnt mean he doesnt want his team to contend... KW and JR both made that clear. Pretty much JR just wants KW to be creative, kind of like how he was in 2005. Trade Dye for some young pitchers while getting rid of that 24 million owed to him- okay good. Now you have a good chunk of change to use on free agency or even aqcuirering a guy like Roberts via trade.

 

I'm all for clearing up payroll for upgrades, but Rock's proposed lineup had no other upgrades made with that money.

[daa84]

The only reason it took him that long to break the starting lineup is because of Juan Uribe. I will bet on Viciedo starting for us out of ST.

I'll bet he doesn't. He's 19 years old. Most guys that are 19 are playing in rookie ball, not even in class A. Maybe the kid is a phenom, in the mold of Andruw Jones and Miguel Cabrera and is ready to play at the age of 20. But bear in mind most US kids who are drafted out of high school at the age of 18 take at least 3 years to make the bigs. Most college guys drafted at the age of 21-22 take at least a year, usually two. I hope I'm wrong, and this kid is ready to play, right away, but I'll be very, very surprised.

 

Besides, you say alexei didn't play because of Uribe, well maybe viciedo won't play because of Betemit...even if he is ready

Edited November 25, 2008 by daa84

[iamshack]

I'm all for clearing up payroll for upgrades, but Rock's proposed lineup had no other upgrades made with that money.

 

Right, I don't think you can make judgments of the team after a Dye trade but before any accompanying moves. As has been said before, Kenny is not going to cut $40 million off the payroll this year without any other accompanying moves...it just won't happen...

[Dick Allen]

To expect a 19 year old to start in the major leagues is beyond a reach. KW said yesterday they are trimming payroll, (even though they are increasing ticket prices). If he trims it a lot, and the team falls on its face, like it most undoubtedly would with Rock Raines' projected line-up, KW would be back to being the village idiot.

[fathom]

One thing to note...if the Sox do trade Dye, I'm going to be pissed that we traded Swisher. He could have taken over in LF, with Quentin moving to RF.

[flavum]

The only reason it took him that long to break the starting lineup is because of Juan Uribe. I will bet on Viciedo starting for us out of ST.

 

I'd put Viciedo's chance of breaking ST with the Sox at about 10%...maybe less.

 

20 year old 3rd baseman? No way. Give him at least a year at AA. If he has a monster season, bring him up in September.

 

[RockRaines]

I'll bet he doesn't. He's 19 years old. Most guys that are 19 are playing in rookie ball, not even in class A. Maybe the kid is a phenom, in the mold of Andruw Jones and Miguel Cabrera and is ready to play at the age of 20. But bear in mind most US kids who are drafted out of high school at the age of 18 take at least 3 years to make the bigs. Most college guys drafted at the age of 21-22 take at least a year, usually two. I hope I'm wrong, and this kid is ready to play, right away, but I'll be very, very surprised.

 

Besides, you say alexei didn't play because of Uribe, well maybe viciedo won't play because of Betemit...even if he is ready

Yes, but most 15-16 year olds arent playing pro ball. Its pretty hard to compare what he has done to a typical 19 year old in the states.

[RockRaines]

I'm all for clearing up payroll for upgrades, but Rock's proposed lineup had no other upgrades made with that money.

Well, I never said it was finished. Most likely KW would be flipping Javy anyway, and I've said numerous times on here the last few days that there was some rumored internal conversation around some bigger contracts, which would be the money we have saved. Lets say KW signs Furcal with some of that money and moves Alexei to CF. There are alot of things that could happen after trading Dye.

[iamshack]

Yes, but most 15-16 year olds arent playing pro ball. Its pretty hard to compare what he has done to a typical 19 year old in the states.

 

That's a good point, Rock.

 

The bottom line is, none of us know. I don't even believe our scouts know. We're just going to have to throw him out there and see what happens. If he appears as though he can handle mlb pitching (as Alexei did), then he will get a shot. If he does not, than he will go down to AA.

 

As of now, none of us have seen squat of this kid, so to speculate on where he will be next year is foolish.

Edited November 25, 2008 by iamshack

[fathom]

Well, I never said it was finished. Most likely KW would be flipping Javy anyway, and I've said numerous times on here the last few days that there was some rumored internal conversation around some bigger contracts, which would be the money we have saved. Lets say KW signs Furcal with some of that money and moves Alexei to CF. There are alot of things that could happen after trading Dye.

 

I hadn't seen that you said that. I gotta give you credit, you were dead on about Dayan.

[DBAHO]

One thing to note...if the Sox do trade Dye, I'm going to be pissed that we traded Swisher. He could have taken over in LF, with Quentin moving to RF.

The Sox can always sign a replacement in FA.

[DBAHO]

I highly doubt TB would move Wade Davis. Much more likely to deal Sonnenstine or Jackson, so if Williams were able to swing Davis he'd continue to prove his awesomeness.

 

Davis > Bailey > Jackson, IMO.

 

In general, I don't think the Reds matchup well because outside of Bailey and the untouchables (Votto, Bruce, Volquez, and Cueto) they don't really have many attractive trading chips.

 

Also, just say no to Ryan Freel. He's old, can't stay healthy or run anymore, and is a utility player at best on a good team.

Well I mean the Rays will have these 6 guys next season if they stand pat;

 

Kazmir

Shields

Garza

Sonnastine

Jackson

Price

 

Not sure how Wade Davis fits into that equation. They may have to move 2 guys from the list above to fit him into the rotation at some stage. Hence why I think he's attainable for the right offer.

[Dick Allen]

The problem with flipping Vazquez is it appears other MLB teams don't find his $11.5 million salary as big of bargain as the Soxtalk consensus. Although maybe Boston would be interested. In Bill James (I believe the Red Sox still employ him) new book for 2009 he has Vazquez with a 3.80 ERA which is lower than he has for any other White Sox starter.

[RockRaines]

I hadn't seen that you said that. I gotta give you credit, you were dead on about Dayan.

Ah, I was about 4 days later than I thought.