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Balta1701

Government Shutdown on the clock thread

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That was for procedural reasons, but they lost 4 (Lee, Paul, Graham, Flake) and McCain isn’t coming back until February at the earliest. Pence is in the Middle East for the moment.

 

Lindsey Graham is blaming Stephen Miller for pulling every single proposal from Trump’s desk. They feel they’re winning the battle of perception and the Dems will cave.

 

While the generic Congressional ballot is narrowing to 5-6 points, the “very enthusiastic” gap about voting in 2018 is still an immense 15 points.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 20, 2018 -> 09:32 PM)
Seriously, is there any politician that you guys like? Someone that you really identify with and want to succeed? IMO these guys are all scum. I dont see one guy that I think really has our interests in his/her heart.

Not at the federal level, but Daniel Biss.

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The comment line, which can be reached at 202-456-1111, is supposed to allow citizens a chance to leave a voice message for the President.

 

Callers on Sunday were greeted by these recorded words:

 

"Thank you for calling the White House. Unfortunately, we cannot answer your call today because congressional Democrats are holding government funding, including funding for our troops and other national security priorities, hostage to an unrelated immigration debate. Due to this obstruction, the government is shut down."

 

cnn.cm

 

 

Between crap like this and the advertisement from the Trump Re-election campaign accusing the Dems of being responsible for all illegal immigrants doing harm to citizens (despite the Gang of 6/8 efforts being rebuffed by the House since Ryan doesn't ever want to legalize any of the Dreamers even)...there's going to be a longer and longer standoff if they don't get this solved tonight.

 

The Democratic base has been itching for a fight like this, and they're not going to back down without forcing the issue somehow on DACA before early March.

 

As much as it would be incredibly painful and make the US an object of ridicule all around the world as 100's of thousands of kids/teenagers/young adults are forcibly deported back to Mexico (making Trump look like a bully/super villain)...it's not what America represents to the world, and it's not fair to those whose lives would be torn apart as they've become a political football to be tossed back and forth.

Edited by caulfield12

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Deporting hundreds of thousands to a country they've never known and tearing families apart entirely because of who they are is exactly what America represents to the rest of the world right now, with good reason, because that's who we are.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 07:37 PM)
Deporting hundreds of thousands to a country they've never known and tearing families apart entirely because of who they are is exactly what America represents to the rest of the world right now, with good reason, because that's who we are.

 

I think the huge fear of the GOP House is that Trump would backtrack at the last second (think Cohn, Javanka taking that side of the argument against Kelly/S.Miller/Mulvaney/Short)...and call such a move "mean" like he did in the middle of the ObamaCare negotiations, undercutting their position.

 

Of course, it would completely piss off his base, but you could see Trump taking a wishy-washy position somewhere in the middle.

 

 

Charles Koch donated $500K to Ryan days after GOP tax plan passed

 

 

I think everyone acknowledges the Senate could easily work out a deal that would be more moderate, whereas Ryan's GOP Congress and Trump are pulling everything way too far to the right at the moment to work out a deal.

 

And then you have the parsing of words like "authorize" and "appropriate" $20 billion of funds for either "border protection" or a "physical border wall." The GOP wants to cram so many things like e-verify, more agents, the end of "chain migration," on top of a border wall itself (that most Americans and most GOPers in private don't believe will even work)...to make any type of compromise nearly impossible to reach. Let's not forget Trump a year ago promised to deal with this issue of the Dreamers (we'll take care of these kids, or words to that effect), then punted it in September back to Congress because he didn't want to lead or be accused of selling out his conservative immigration position.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (farmteam @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 04:22 PM)
Not at the federal level, but Daniel Biss.

 

That's the mathematician running for Illinois governor, right? He'd have my vote if I lived in Illinois.

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Marcus Lemonis always comes up in this discussion.

 

Why do I immediately think of Kevin Kline in the movie "DAVE" fixing the Federal budget deficit as an accountant/fake president, lol?

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 07:37 PM)
Deporting hundreds of thousands to a country they've never known and tearing families apart entirely because of who they are is exactly what America represents to the rest of the world right now, with good reason, because that's who we are.

You make it sound like the US is the only country where immigration is an issue. The main push for the Brexit was around the same issues. The people in the UK wanted to kick out the LEGAL immigrants to stop taking their jobs and paying for them in their economy. If anything the issues of immigration are worse the here, it's just that there are more here due to the size of the countries involved.

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Okay, PTAC, you're as "middle of the road" as it gets around here.

 

What's the compromise on immigration that the Republican House and Trump can actually sign off on without risking a total rebellion from their base of supporters?

 

 

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 09:42 PM)
You make it sound like the US is the only country where immigration is an issue. The main push for the Brexit was around the same issues. The people in the UK wanted to kick out the LEGAL immigrants to stop taking their jobs and paying for them in their economy. If anything the issues of immigration are worse the here, it's just that there are more here due to the size of the countries involved.

Totally. You know what’s funny? Is that the huge crisis in Europe, and it’s an absolute nightmare of a crisis, is caused by a huge influx of millions of people from a few s***hole countries. Failed states are s***holes. Places with constant war, oppressive regimes, the inability to feed citizens, the inability to have any record keeping are pretty much the definition of s***hole.

 

As an example: If for some reason I was told I had to live somewhere besides the United States but I could pick anywhere I’d be like “Cool, let me check the world map and pick a place. So many choices, well let me start with where I don’t want to go:”

 

In no particular order those countries would probably be Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Chad, Somalia, Libya, Yemen & North Korea, due to the governments (or lack thereof) and the treatment of citizens.

 

Not because I’m racist but because these are pretty much s***holes. Failed states are s***holes.

 

I think Trump is right on this one, but the President is required to have an unrivaled level of tact, which he has zero. But he is right that failed states are s***holes because if they aren’t s***holes, then what is a s***hole?

 

If the countries of the world were placed on a bell curve, some would be pushing 3 dev. Wouldn’t those be s***holes by default. Or maybe no countries are s***holes and that’s an argument I’d be willing to listen to, because otherwise SOME countries have to be the s***holes by statistics. Or maybe the bell doesn’t apply.

 

And please don’t tell me about human beings or skin color, just talking about conditions of governments and treatment of citizens here.

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 12:36 AM)
Totally. You know what’s funny? Is that the huge crisis in Europe, and it’s an absolute nightmare of a crisis, is caused by a huge influx of millions of people from a few s***hole countries. Failed states are s***holes. Places with constant war, oppressive regimes, the inability to feed citizens, the inability to have any record keeping are pretty much the definition of s***hole.

 

As an example: If for some reason I was told I had to live somewhere besides the United States but I could pick anywhere I’d be like “Cool, let me check the world map and pick a place. So many choices, well let me start with where I don’t want to go:”

 

In no particular order those countries would probably be Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Chad, Somalia, Libya, Yemen & North Korea, due to the governments (or lack thereof) and the treatment of citizens.

 

Not because I’m racist but because these are pretty much s***holes. Failed states are s***holes.

 

I think Trump is right on this one, but the President is required to have an unrivaled level of tact, which he has zero. But he is right that failed states are s***holes because if they aren’t s***holes, then what is a s***hole?

 

If the countries of the world were placed on a bell curve, some would be pushing 3 dev. Wouldn’t those be s***holes by default. Or maybe no countries are s***holes and that’s an argument I’d be willing to listen to, because otherwise SOME countries have to be the s***holes by statistics. Or maybe the bell doesn’t apply.

 

And please don’t tell me about human beings or skin color, just talking about conditions of governments and treatment of citizens here.

So everyone in the countries are crap and they should be stuck where they are? You seem to like Venezuelan baseball players, but if they are from a s***hole, what are they doing roaming our streets when they aren't being watched playing baseball? The commie Cubans, why is Jose Abreu here? Dangerous. No one is arguing these countries have issues, but that doesn't make all their people horrible people. You just gave reasons why a reasonable person would want to flee. Seems most people came to this country initially under the same premise.

Edited by Dick Allen

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Non-s***hole countries by definition have Trump properties/hotels, like Panama or Indonesia.

 

http://time.com/4629308/donald-trump-busin...eals-world-map/

Or you can just go by Trump real estate around the world on one clickable map.

 

Are all these countries non-s***holes???

 

 

Someone just called into Washington Journal on c-span and suggested we build Dachau-style concentration camps for illegal immigrants around the country.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 07:45 PM)
I wonder if Trump is going to get Mexico to also pay the expense of deporting all these people back to Mexico. He is probably making deals right now.

It's not just people whose country of origin is Mexico...

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 07:25 AM)
It's not just people whose country of origin is Mexico...

I know that, but I would guess a majority are from Mexico based on geography. Deportation is a huge expense. I really don't know why it is imperative these people leave the country for national security purposes, yet if funding for a wall is available, they really aren't that dangerous anymore. I was cooling down at the gym yesterday morning, and they had one of Trump's flunkies on with Chris Wallace. Wallace isn't typical Fox News, so when he asked this guy questions , he was dancing around them like you wouldn't believe. He showed him Trump saying government shutdowns are on the the POTUS, but of course, this was very different. He showed him footage of this guy himself approving shutting down the government in 2013 over Obamacare, yet that was different. There were things he didn't like it that one. Supposedly, only republicans don't have to vote for things they don't like.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 05:25 AM)
So everyone in the countries are crap and they should be stuck where they are? You seem to like Venezuelan baseball players, but if they are from a s***hole, what are they doing roaming our streets when they aren't being watched playing baseball? The commie Cubans, why is Jose Abreu here? Dangerous. No one is arguing these countries have issues, but that doesn't make all their people horrible people. You just gave reasons why a reasonable person would want to flee. Seems most people came to this country initially under the same premise.

Dick I never mentioned anything about the people of these countries, not sure where you got that from my post. Merely saying that if all the countries were ranked, some countries have to be at the bottom. And if North Korea isn’t a s***hole, then what is a s***hole?

 

I’m only arguing the accuracy of the term s***hole.

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I think calling countries that America has had direct influence in why they are currently in the situation they are in "s***holes" is really a large part of the problem.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 08:37 AM)
I know that, but I would guess a majority are from Mexico based on geography. Deportation is a huge expense. I really don't know why it is imperative these people leave the country for national security purposes, yet if funding for a wall is available, they really aren't that dangerous anymore. I was cooling down at the gym yesterday morning, and they had one of Trump's flunkies on with Chris Wallace. Wallace isn't typical Fox News, so when he asked this guy questions , he was dancing around them like you wouldn't believe. He showed him Trump saying government shutdowns are on the the POTUS, but of course, this was very different. He showed him footage of this guy himself approving shutting down the government in 2013 over Obamacare, yet that was different. There were things he didn't like it that one. Supposedly, only republicans don't have to vote for things they don't like.

 

Mick Mulvaney?

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 08:47 AM)
Dick I never mentioned anything about the people of these countries, not sure where you got that from my post. Merely saying that if all the countries were ranked, some countries have to be at the bottom. And if North Korea isn’t a s***hole, then what is a s***hole?

 

I’m only arguing the accuracy of the term s***hole.

 

Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Poland, Italy...most of Eastern Europe, a century ago, right?

 

Any country with Roma or gypsies, like Romania, Hungary or the Czech Republic.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 09:00 AM)
Mick Mulvaney?

That was him. If they have it online, everyone can watch it. He cracked up Wallace and himself with his BS.

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 08:47 AM)
Dick I never mentioned anything about the people of these countries, not sure where you got that from my post. Merely saying that if all the countries were ranked, some countries have to be at the bottom. And if North Korea isn’t a s***hole, then what is a s***hole?

 

I’m only arguing the accuracy of the term s***hole.

Wouldn't the worst countries to live in have the citizens most likely to want to flee to something better? If you are living in paradise, you don't want to leave. The whole immigration thing is people trying to better their lives. Trump has no problem with Haitians when they will work for minimum wage at his properties. I wonder what he has in store for them with the tremendous tax breaks that have been so successful, even though they haven't hit anyone's paycheck yet. Why isn't Mar A Lago considered dangerous with all the immigrants they have working there?

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2018 -> 10:23 PM)
Okay, PTAC, you're as "middle of the road" as it gets around here.

 

What's the compromise on immigration that the Republican House and Trump can actually sign off on without risking a total rebellion from their base of supporters?

Unfortunately, the politics have become so "us against them" I'm not sure what the compromise would be they would agree on. I know what I would probably view as a compromise but I'm not sure they would agree to it. The Democrats all seem to fall inline and can agree what they want. However, the Republicans are split in a "moderate" and really conservative group on this issue so they can't agree amoung themselves.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 11:22 AM)
Sounds like the Dems have caved for vague promises from McConnell and the government will be reopened (for a few weeks) shortly

I think I would give him his wall. It will never be built while he's in office anyway. Get everything else and take all the credit in the world.

 

But we all know Art of the Deal will be taking all the credit.

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