witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) There's no point in reading your post beyond this. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml Look at his career performance. Factor in the ups with the downs and and he's at least a solid pitcher. His 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013 seasons were very good and should bring back a high return on the trade market. If he pitches up to previous levels he will bring back a quality return. Please look at the numbers next time. Know who else was good in 2008? JI JIM THOME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) Know who else was good in 2008? JI JIM THOME And Adam Dunn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) There's no point in reading your post beyond this. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml Look at his career performance. Factor in the ups with the downs and and he's at least a solid pitcher. His 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013 seasons were very good and should bring back a high return on the trade market. If he pitches up to previous levels he will bring back a quality return. Please look at the numbers next time. This is a common and enticing way to look at things, but flawed. Remember, they are older now -- you are not paying for the mean of their prime seasons, you are paying for their mid 30's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 There's no point in reading your post beyond this. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml Look at his career performance. Factor in the ups with the downs and and he's at least a solid pitcher. His 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013 seasons were very good and should bring back a high return on the trade market. If he pitches up to previous levels he will bring back a quality return. Please look at the numbers next time. [/quo Ups and downs average out to him being a...shocker... really average pitcher who wants a long term payday contract. I can look at his s***ty numbers all you want, it doesn't make me want to pay 13 million a year for him anymore. Especially when I know he's not worth it and we'll be stuck with it for 3-4 years draining our payroll when it could be better spent elsewhere. Q and EJ can do what Santana can do for a fraction of the price and Danks can do it for similar costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If you thought last year was tough to go through . . . You haven't seen anything like a team that struggles to score runs and lacks rotational depth. Those 200 innings that PeavySantiago pitched last season have to made up by someone(s). The Sox could be unwatchable by June with this rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) IT NEVER HAPPENS. Give me one example of a team that signed a pitcher to a 3-4 year contract and then turned around and dealt him 3 months later. ONE. J F P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) If you thought last year was tough to go through . . . You haven't seen anything like a team that struggles to score runs and lacks rotational depth. Those 200 innings that PeavySantiago pitched last season have to made up by someone(s). The Sox could be unwatchable by June with this rotation. The White Sox have 7 starting pitchers. Their depth going into the season is perfectly fine. They could use more throughout the organization, whether by acquisition or development. And people are going to enjoy this year more, even if the team loses 100 games. They have clearly taken steps in the right direction and it's going to be a young team. Honestly, with just Garcia in the lineup instead of Rios, I enjoyed watching games more after July 31st. With all the young talent they have, I think this year will go by relatively quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:41 PM) J F P Really, so the White Sox brought Jake Peavy from outside the organization on a 3-4 year contract and then traded him 3 months later. Oh wait, no. Edited January 27, 2014 by witesoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet... Lets say the Sox believe Paulino strings together a good 1st half (something he is more than capable of doing)...What sort of package would he be looking at? Would a team rather have the cheap production of Paulino, or the more proven guy who's getting paid a lot more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) If you thought last year was tough to go through . . . You haven't seen anything like a team that struggles to score runs and lacks rotational depth. Those 200 innings that PeavySantiago pitched last season have to made up by someone(s). The Sox could be unwatchable by June with this rotation. So do the 160 innings that were pitched by Dylan Axelrod and Ramon Troncoso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) Really, so the White Sox brought Jake Peavy from outside the organization on a 3-4 year contract and then traded him 3 months later. Oh wait, no. Free agent could have gone wherever he wanted. How many times has his situation occurred and why does something have to be common to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:47 PM) Free agent could have gone wherever he wanted. How many times has his situation occurred and why does something have to be common to do it? As was pointed out, Peavy was never a free agent. He signed prior to filing and becoming an unrestricted free agent. Something has to be common to show that there's actually precedent for doing it. It's an absolutely classless and obtuse to sign a guy to a 4 year contract only to trade him 3 months into it. This isn't XBox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If you want my opinions on guys I think the Sox should bring in, then I'm looking at guys like Jason Hammel, Scott Baker, Tommy Hanson, James McDonald, and Jeff Niemann. These guys have upside, don't require a long-term or large yearly guaranteed, they can be traded to a winner or re-signed to another contract, or they can be released and nothing is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:47 PM) Free agent could have gone wherever he wanted. How many times has his situation occurred and why does something have to be common to do it? Again, JP opted to sign an extension before reaching the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:01 PM) Right now, the Sox rotation features: -3 guys who are making 7 (or 8) digit figures -1 guy who has put up great numbers over the past 2 years, and -1 guy who is the top pitching prospect in the system and one of the more highly thought of pitchers in all of minor league baseball. Who are you kicking out of the rotation to bring in Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez? Paulino to the bullpen? Say good bye to Daniel Webb then. Johnson? No point in having him repeat AAA when he destroyed it last year. It's an absolutely absurd, ridiculous, crazy idea to bring in another starting pitcher. Thank f*** Rick Hahn is the GM. Rick was willing to spend $120 million to bring in another starter and said it is likely he will be drafting one with the 3rd pick. Apparently he does not agree with your assessment about the starting pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) Again, JP opted to sign an extension before reaching the market. Still could have gone wherever he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) If you thought last year was tough to go through . . . You haven't seen anything like a team that struggles to score runs and lacks rotational depth. Those 200 innings that PeavySantiago pitched last season have to made up by someone(s). The Sox could be unwatchable by June with this rotation. And you want to push chips in to add a mid-rotation starter? This is the point Marty. The team will probably be bad and Ervin Santana isn't going to fix it. There's no point in wasting resources on him right now. Resources need to go to things with the potential for surplus value. Post-prime 3 fWAR pitchers on the free agent market do not do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:50 PM) If you want my opinions on guys I think the Sox should bring in, then I'm looking at guys like Jason Hammel, Scott Baker, Tommy Hanson, James McDonald, and Jeff Niemann. These guys have upside, don't require a long-term or large yearly guaranteed, they can be traded to a winner or re-signed to another contract, or they can be released and nothing is lost. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that happen. It makes much more sense for the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 05:45 PM) Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet... Lets say the Sox believe Paulino strings together a good 1st half (something he is more than capable of doing)...What sort of package would he be looking at? Would a team rather have the cheap production of Paulino, or the more proven guy who's getting paid a lot more? IMO, if Paulino puts together a solid first half the Sox would likely hold onto him through the season given that we have an option year on him. We might consider moving him next offseason if Beck/Rienzo/Someone else forces our hand, but we could also be in a position of clearing Danks out instead or making a larger move at that point. I kinda doubt that teams would jump with a solid offer for Paulino at the deadline, at least not one that would make me move him if he were pitching that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) Rick was willing to spend $120 million to bring in another starter and said it is likely he will be drafting one with the 3rd pick. Apparently he does not agree with your assessment about the starting pitching. For the 2014 season I bet he does, which is why he isn't going to sign anyone else to a $13 million a year contract. Also, if you don't see the difference between Masahiro Tanaka and the combo of Jimenez and Santana, then let me remind you that Tanaka is 25 and has the best splitter in the world while Jimenez is 30 and inconsistent as hell and Santana is 31 and inconsistent as hell. You can always improve. For all intents and purposes, the White Sox have enough depth at this stage in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) Still could have gone wherever he wanted. And he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that happen. It makes much more sense for the Sox. James McDonald would be a great Coop project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) Still could have gone wherever he wanted. But this is why his salary was low and contract was tradeable: the terms of the contract were not representative of the highest bidder for his services. Edited January 27, 2014 by Eminor3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:58 PM) And he did. But he gave up control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) But this is why his salary was low and contract was tradeable: the terms of the contract were not representative of the highest bidder for his services. It still was 14.5 million a year. Santana and Jimenez probably won't get that and teams have more money to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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