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Baseball Injury Information Thread

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 01:26 PM)
Back 15-20 years ago, every time a guy fouled a ball off his foot or was hit in the hand by a pitch, a trainer would spray him with some sort of freezing agent. How come they don't do that any longer?

Because they found out that it was just a topical effect and the effect of the cold did not reach down to where the injury was. The effects of cold that really help the injury are to slow down the inflammatory process. The topical modalities numbed the pain a little but didn't do much else. Plus it's cheaper to just have the ice or cold packs handy.

 

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 02:50 PM)
Because they found out that it was just a topical effect and the effect of the cold did not reach down to where the injury was. The effects of cold that really help the injury are to slow down the inflammatory process. The topical modalities numbed the pain a little but didn't do much else. Plus it's cheaper to just have the ice or cold packs handy.

Obviously not baseball related but is that the same spray they use at the World Cup? Pretty useless there too I take it?

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 05:03 PM)
Obviously not baseball related but is that the same spray they use at the World Cup? Pretty useless there too I take it?

It is. However, you will see it used outside the US because ice is not as readily available. They don't use ice for much of anything.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 06:06 PM)
It is. However, you will see it used outside the US because ice is not as readily available. They don't use ice for much of anything.

Ahh ok, that makes sense. Thanks.

Edited by Rowand44

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It is. However, you will see it used outside the US because ice is not as readily available. They don't use ice for much of anything.

 

Yeah, good luck getting a drink with ice in it anywhere in Europe.

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QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 12:07 PM)
Ptatc, what kind of severity is possible with Tanaka's injury?

With asmalll tear you immobilize it and hope that the tear fully heals. The PRP they are using helps tostimulate the healing process . typical healing time is 6 to 8 weeks. They will check it at 4 to see how it's healing. There is the possibility it doesn't heal but when they say small tear there is usually apretty good chance.

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http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/p...ble-with-tanaka

 

Argument for why the Yanks should bite the bullet and do TJ right now...with one of the arguments that nobody with a partial tear has ever been fully-rehabilitated without suffering a full tear eventually (Wainright being the one who claim closest, pitching on for two years until he finally had no choice but to go under the knife)

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What's your prediction/thoughts on how having a smaller than normal UCL will affect Brady Aiken's pitching future?

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QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 08:33 AM)
What's your prediction/thoughts on how having a smaller than normal UCL will affect Brady Aiken's pitching future?

I've never really seen anything on something like that. However, with the rash of injuries lately it doesn't sound good. I guess it would depend on if it was width or thickness. I don't think width would make too much difference. However, thickness would probably decrease the tensile strngth of the ligament.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 17, 2014 -> 10:48 PM)
I've never really seen anything on something like that. However, with the rash of injuries lately it doesn't sound good. I guess it would depend on if it was width or thickness. I don't think width would make too much difference. However, thickness would probably decrease the tensile strngth of the ligament.

 

 

http://www.astroscounty.com/2014/07/quick-...rady-aiken.html

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/everyone-lo...ady-aiken-mess/

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Ptatc, not baseball related, but what in the world would cause tendinitis In your back? Specifically, sacroiliitis? I hadn't done anything abnormal at all, and preso, I couldn't hardly move.

 

Since that's there, now all the muscles are knotted around it. Damn it's painful. Supposedly, after steroids to keep down the swelling it means I just have to exercise.

 

I guess we'll see. Just wondered if you could tell me anything else...

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“No baseball player will have a normal MRI,” Dines said. “If someone has a congenitally small ulnar collateral ligament, even if they tear it and you reconstruct it, you can always make it bigger. And it’s almost a foregone conclusion these days that a young pitcher who throws in the upper 90s will at some point have a reconstruction anyway.

 

“When I read the reports about Aiken, I thought that there might be some concern about the bony anatomy where the ligament attaches, perhaps the medial epicondyle. If that is damaged or abnormal, you’re left with less bone there to reconstruct the ligament, and that can mean that a reconstruction won’t always work. They must have thought, for some reason, that a future reconstruction would not take.”

 

PTAC?

 

from si.com story on Aiken

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:32 PM)
“No baseball player will have a normal MRI,” Dines said. “If someone has a congenitally small ulnar collateral ligament, even if they tear it and you reconstruct it, you can always make it bigger. And it’s almost a foregone conclusion these days that a young pitcher who throws in the upper 90s will at some point have a reconstruction anyway.

 

“When I read the reports about Aiken, I thought that there might be some concern about the bony anatomy where the ligament attaches, perhaps the medial epicondyle. If that is damaged or abnormal, you’re left with less bone there to reconstruct the ligament, and that can mean that a reconstruction won’t always work. They must have thought, for some reason, that a future reconstruction would not take.”

 

PTAC?

 

from si.com story on Aiken

The statement is accurate for the reconstruction. You need to drill a substantial size hole in the medial condyle (not really the epicondyle but that's semantics, it's the same area). the tendon that is used to replace the ligament is much larger than the original so there needs to be room with which to work.

 

However, I have never been involved in a case where the condyle was too small. It's conceivable, I guess, but I've never seen nor heard of it. Maybe in a case where he had "little leaguer's elbow"as a kid where there is damage to the growth plate on the medial side of the elbow..

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 21, 2015 -> 02:56 PM)
Verlander blames coddling for spate of injuries and TJ surgeries.

 

so does he explain how that cause it???

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Here is the abstract of a really good article about curveball mechanics. As we'vee said all along, it is not inherenyly bad for the arm. The problem is when it is thrown improperly or pitchers try to change it to more of a "slurve" to do something different. I tried to attach the actual article but it said the file was too big.

 

The Curveball as a Risk Factor for Injury:

A Systematic Review

 

W. Jeffrey Grantham, MD,† Jaicharan J. Iyengar, MD,† Ian R. Byram, MD,‡

and Christopher S. Ahmad, MD*†

 

Context: The curveball is regarded by many as a potential risk factor for injury in youth baseball pitchers.

 

Objective: To critically evaluate the scientific evidence regarding the curveball and its impact on pitching biomechanics

and the overall risk of arm injuries in baseball pitchers.

 

Study Type: Systematic review.

 

Level of Evidence: Level 3.

 

Data Sources: Ovid MEDLINE from 1946 to 2012.

 

Study Selection: Ten biomechanical studies on kinematic or electromyographic analysis of pitching a curveball were

included, as well as 5 epidemiologic studies that assessed pain or injury incidence in pitchers throwing the curveball.

 

Data Extraction: When possible, demographic, methodology, kinetics, and kinematics variables and pain/injury incidence

were compiled.

 

Results: Two biomechanical studies found greater horizontal adduction of the shoulder at ball release and less shoulder

internal torque during the curveball pitching motion. Two studies demonstrated less proximal force and less torque at the

elbow as the arm accelerated when throwing a curveball compared with a fastball, as well as greater supination of the forearm

and less wrist extension. Electromyographic data suggested increased activity of extensor and supinator muscles for

curveballs. No studies found increased force or torque about the elbow or shoulder. Three epidemiologic studies showed

no significant association between pitching a curveball and upper extremity pain or injury. One retrospective epidemiologic

study reported a 52% increase in shoulder pain in pitchers throwing a curveball, although this may have been due to

confounders.

 

Conclusion: Despite much debate in the baseball community about the curveball’s safety in youth pitchers, limited biomechanical

and most epidemiologic data do not indicate an increased risk of injury when compared with the fastball.

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 29, 2015 -> 05:15 AM)
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/...john-cases-why/

 

 

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/jenkins/artic...twitter-desktop

More in-depth article.

 

Why the Giants have only had one pitcher with TJ. Matt CaIn had bone chips removed, fwiw.

Excellent article. The most important point he brings up is that almost all elbow tendonosis (tendonitis is really wrong when you look at the physiology) is caused by squeezing or gripping too tightly. Whether it's the inside of the elbow "little leaguer's/golfer's elbow" or on the outside "tennis elbow". It's caused by gripping too tightly. I'd never thought about it in relation to weight lifting but he's correct.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 2, 2015 -> 02:36 PM)

I gave some opinions in another theead. Not knowing everything that is going on, he just threw too hard too often. Now many things are breaking down. He needs to learn to not throw with that much intensity and still get people out. That's why its difficult to become a really successful pitcher for an extended period of time. They should learn early how to pitch purposely not throwing their hardest.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 3, 2015 -> 08:11 AM)
I gave some opinions in another theead. Not knowing everything that is going on, he just threw too hard too often. Now many things are breaking down. He needs to learn to not throw with that much intensity and still get people out. That's why its difficult to become a really successful pitcher for an extended period of time. They should learn early how to pitch purposely not throwing their hardest.

 

 

So Nolan Ryan was basically just the sole exception to the rule, a complete freak of nature?

 

They didn't have stadium radar gun readings back then, but I'm sure he was well aware of the scouts' guns.

 

Or Randy Johnson, to a lesser extent?

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 3, 2015 -> 07:58 PM)
So Nolan Ryan was basically just the sole exception to the rule, a complete freak of nature?

 

They didn't have stadium radar gun readings back then, but I'm sure he was well aware of the scouts' guns.

 

Or Randy Johnson, to a lesser extent?

That's possible. Some people are genetic freaks. But it's also relative to how hard you throw. If a guy can throw 100 he can sit at 96 for a long time. If a guy tops out at 96 and tries to stay there, there is more of a chance for injury.

 

It would be interesting to see how often Ryan stayed at his max velocity. He had a really good curveball as well. He is also an exception who could throw with the Tom house mechanics that killed Mark Prior's career. Most pitcher's can't handle them.

 

Same applies to Johnson. I would like to know how often he stayed at his ceiling.

 

It's all playing the averages anyway. Some pitcher's can handle it but I think they are the exceptions

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