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2023 he had a bad April but OPS'd over 1.000 in May and June. Maybe I should have said long odds instead of odds are agsinst it happening so everything youre saying is not lost on me. I just think the situation calls for Getz to go for it as far as trying to get the best return possible. I also thinks it helps to have got the number 1 pick in the draft along with a large pool of draft money. It somewhat mitigated Getz just settling for the best of mediocre offers. We also disagree that a TDL return would only slightly improve IF his WAR and ISO got back to levels in 3 months of 2026 that we have not seen the last 2 seasons. Im also discounting my own JR factor cheapness level scenario that does not allow for paying both Murakami and Robert salary's .

This. 2029 is still a long ways away, but there is at least some glimmer of hope off in the distance. We have no idea how Ishbia will run things, but at bare minimum, operating like an actual major league team would still be a vast departure from the past decade.

2 things. I did think Crochet could stay healthy. The cause of one of my first wildings, here. Crochet has issues that resulted in TJS and looked healthy. Robert is just chronically injured. Every season, he pulls something doing normal baseball things. Also, when you talk about Robert putting up 3 WAR by the end of June, you're talking about a rate of production he's never attained in his career. That's not even "odds against him" territory. I agree that he'd have to become a completely different player in order to change the conversation at the TDL to a player teams vied for. But that's like betting on the dealer mistakenly leaving the instruction card in a deck of cards, and you getting a pair of them on the draw. All in order to get a slightly better return.

One other thing we have to be aware of if the Murakami signing was predicated on JR insisting that Robert money is at least halfway eliminated. I wouldnt put it past JR to insist a Robert trade be completed by opening day. Getz may not have the luxury of paying him and Murakami at the same time.

Lineup construction is a different argument from Robert's abilities and ceiling. People feel compelled to shift focus from Robert to lineup, roster and culture issues because for the last 2 seasons, Robert has OPSed 15% below average. I agree with you that Robert seems to be coming around, offensively. There are positives to be gleaned from keeping him just as there are to trading him for an interesting return. I vote for trading him, more based on the fact that he's not part of the future, could offer opportunity to blocked or challenged post-hype dudes, and boredom. My main argument is that any TDL return isn't going to be better than now. Robert covering CF is value that we're mostly discounting.

Then so be it, I don’t want to give Robert up for anything short of another impact player either in the rotation or in the lineup. I think this is very different than an Andrew Vaughn situation, if Robert gets traded for scraps and turns it on, I’ll speak for myself, I’d be pissed. I truly think Getz feels the same way, they need something of significance back for his ceiling. If the offers aren’t great then I’d rather keep him for the next two seasons and risk losing him for nothing than dumping him for nothing now. And yes I’m fully aware of his injury history

Plus Mr.Source of Irritation talks out of both sides of his mouth. He has talked about Sosa's low baseball IQ as much as anyone here.

They can start Friedl in CF, Bleday in LF, and Marté in RF.

I understand the doubts but the Sox really have no choice than to hang onto him at this point and hope the Pope miracles continue and he gets the kind of hands on approach in the off sesson they gave Colson in season. No one thought Crochet could stay healthy either or transition into what he became either. I know the odds are against him performing the way I said would make a difference in a trade. But in game power definitely has to show itself again while maintaining the plate discipline and fielding of last year. All that could result in 3 fWAR before entering July. Those kind of numbers would surely increase his value.

I dont see how Bleday is a replacement for Robert for CIN. He isn't really a real CF and he's LH so he isn't going to kill LHP as i read they really need a righty bat to kill LHP. Is Krall maybe making this move to get rid of one of their other OFers to make room for Robert? Or is he trying to create the illusion of leverage for the endgame of trade discussions? I don't see them as duplicative at all. It's also only 1.4m and even for a poor franchise that's not really a problem. I'm not saying Bleday isn't useful and isn't a good buy low candidate for them that they can flip, he is, but he doesn't really address what they need.

You are correct, and I agree with you. I even shut up when the Lenyn Sosa/low IQ stuff gets going because I think that's of the same ilk. There's even been a study about announcer opinions when it comes to white vs. non-white players. I believe that Robert works hard, harder than any of us can imagine. I think all these guys think baseball in ways none of us can.

Sox were 8th in MLB in HRs after the All- Star break and added the top power hitter in Japan. Baldwin also was a productive hitter in the 2nd half with an August slash of .270/.325/.459/.784 and a Sept./Oct. line of .268/.328/.500/.828 that covered 42 games & 141 plate appearences. That exactly the way you want to see a young hitter finish his 1st go round against MLB pitching who had a tough time of it in April & May. They sent him back down to Charlotte and in 29 games he hit 12 HRs with a massive 1.180 OPS.

Lol stop. Vaughn got s%*# for his work ethic too. Underperforming players tend to endure more of a critical eye deservedly or not.

Yeah, he hasn’t lost any raw power or speed. This has all come down to pitchers adjusting to him and he not figuring how to adjust to them until recently.

A wildly undisciplined hitter is going to struggle significantly when he’s part of the worst offense in major league history which was the case two years ago. He has worked hard these past two seasons to improve his plate discipline, but pitchers could simply pitch around him and it impacted his overall results. However, in the second half of last year, things really started to click as the talent level around him improved a ton. He suddenly went from a K rate in the 29% to 35% range against RHP down to the 16% to 18% range. The reality is Robert can be a well above average hitter due to his power, but in order to get the pitches he can actually punish he needs some other decent hitters around him. I don’t see why that’s unreasonable.

It's been a source of irritation for me for a while. It's wild how every Latin or minority player gets their work ethic questioned after injuries, but a the overweight white guys get to run their mouths about them, even when they are injured.

@WhiteSox2023 I’m sorry this is the post I was referring to.

Hell yea

I don't think Robert lollygags, or any of that. What I said was more in response to the arguments about Robert perking up after Colson and Teel were promoted, or the "protection in the lineup" canard.

The more I read and respond to this, the more it cements in my mind that Luis Robert is a 2 bWAR/162 player who will only play around 100 games, so you'll get about 1 bWAR by end of June, mostly predicated on his speed and defense. He won't stay healthy. He won't hit the way we hope for. He's going to hit for about 15% below league average. There's no magic hitting streak that's going to pry loose somebody's #101 prospect that can explode in our system. 2023 is the curse that makes up believe there's a monster pent up in there. There isn't. Look at his batting average drop precipitously over his career, year by year.

Seriously, we are talking about something like a decade from from now. Odds are Jerry is fertilizer and the Ishbia era is well under way, making this all moot.

I think the motivation and work ethic stuff is almost certainly BS. These guys have played through injuries for most of their careers and it has robbed them of ability. I really don't think it gets better.

I do not argue that Robert works hard. But I do think he thinks too much, or gets brought down by losing, or whatnot. A bunch of the arguments here center around putting a stronger lineup around him to protect him. Health is no longer a wild card, unfortunately. I think Getz is riding the line. We could use him for 4 months in CF. We're not trading him for scraps. That's established. Robert does have unrealized "ceiling" tied up in him continuing to mature as a hitter, getting better players around him, etc. Average major leaguers shouldn't really be talked about in those terms. They should plug in and produce at the rate they're known for, not only if you do a bunch of other things to "protect" or motivate him.

I don’t know about that. We saw a good version of him to finish out the year, and his athleticism hasn’t deteriorated at all. It’s still in there somewhere.

Im starting to think the chances of him being traded before opening day are slim. There's only one way they actually get what they want or more for Robert. He must stay healthy for the 1st 3 months of the season hit for power , ideally close to 15 HRs, and pile up at 2.5-3.0 fWAR by the end of June. Just let him hit and play great defense. He doesnt need to pile up stolen bases. I was hoping the Sox or Boras Corp. had recommended Robert Jr. to the Cressey Sports Performance facility in Palm Beach Gardens, Fl. to prepare him for a healthy and productive season. That place has worked with a lot of professional athletes.