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Yeah, Hawk is a racist and awful. You're right.

I think a big reason why people keep saying stuff like this is that there now seems to be a good chance that there will still be a losing record in 2020...Eloy's arrival isn't enough to turn a 100 loss team into an 80 loss team, you and I have a little disagreement on what Kopech will bring to the table in 2020, the catchers aren't likely to be big producers in 2020, the big outfield arrivals aren't until the end of 2020, Cease will be a rookie, and counting on a young bullpen to consistently break through is iffy at best. Throw in any more major injuries on top of that like what we saw this year, and this team could easily show no progress the next 2 years. But, if the White Sox win 70 games in 2020 and 68 in 2021, I don't think there's anyone out there who believes, deep down, that Rick Hahn will receive anything other than a raise and a contract extension.

And now the Padres are trailing...of course. 2-3 the last 5. Gotta lose tomorrow night.

Better yet, how does caulfield figure that doing a 'rebuild" was the best way to go?

INteresting how the lame Avi Garcia is the only Sox hitter to do anything this game.

It's been so dismal that fans are turning into masochists. Another round of Shields? Dear lord.

Avi doesn't need no stinking knees.

Whay am I missing? Knowing this was a rebuilding year, why didn't they just have him examined after the Opening Day injury and have the surgery back then? He ended up w a couple of hammy's due to the knee but he also could have hurt the knew more as well.

The news about Kopech took a lot out of me as a fan and really sent me into a baseball depression, so I haven’t been following the team as much since then.

If you go in any direction, we’ve been beaten up by rivals. Cubs and Cardinals. Brewers and Twins with new stadiums, better attendance, more competitive teams (2002-2010, two of last three years from MN, Milwaukee recently and with Greinke/Sabathia), playoff appearances, etc. KC in 2014-15. Cleveland for the last four seasons, likely to be at least 5 in 2019, not unlike Tigers’ run at beginning of decade. About the best thing you can say is that we’re in similar situations to the Reds, Tigers, Pirates...or Mariners, for a myriad of different reasons. We’re not KC, at least? Perhaps the most remarkable aspect is we’re STILL 24th in MLB attendance, the same as 2012/13 and an improvement position-wise on 2014-17!!! Of course, the “real” revenue generation has fallen off even more dramatically than those numbers would indicate compared to the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers. Profitability, definitely...but largely due to revenue sharing, the Chicago market and one of the most advantageous stadium lease deals. http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance Obvious problem is we’ve arguably lost another 10-15% of the fanbase...but, halfway through blind luck, we’re better positioned for competing the AL Central than any team but the Indians for the next five years (2020 is the first year you can realistically argue anything close to competitiveness, barring some shocking free agency moves.)

I think people can support this point of view 100%, provided they are willing to overlook the fact that the ownership is currently presiding over: A team with the third worst record in all of baseball this year, on the heals of having the fourth worst team last year A team that has lost more games in the last six years than any other team in all of baseball during that time A team that has extended it's playoff drought to a full decade now, continuing on with the fourth such longest drought in all of baseball (despite the existence of two wild card spots) A team that has only made it to the postseason five times in nearly four decades under said ownership If you can get past those inconvenient truths, then yes, you can conclude "there is no reason to believe ownership is the problem".

This just happened with the Broncos 2 years ago. And perhaps i'm old (36) but i'm getting to the point where I just want my shitty teams (Sox, Bears, Bulls, Illinois sports) to be GOOD. I don't need them to be GREAT, but just GOOD. If the Bears can be a consistent contender for a playoff spot and maybe get to a superbowl every decade, I will take it. At least I have hope that something can go their way and they can win. I'm sick of watching shitty teams not even sniff the post season.

I think the one thing that continues to make me incredibly nervous is all of the successful rebuilds recently didn't just try to draft well but tried to exploitt he boundaries of what talent was available for rebuilding teams. What is the area you can say the white sox did that in? Essentially being aggressive on turning reduced-value (to white sox) intl slot bonus into college relievers. I am happy we have Robert, but where would this rebuild be if we had truly had a spending blowout on intl free agency with 20+ signings? We've passed on rule 5. We have used waivers during this time, but to nowhere near the effect of the Milwaukee Brewers. It seems the team has cornered this area where they are aggressively seeking corner power bats and minor league/college relievers that they believe are undervalued. Now that we have a plethora, really the one spectacular thing that could happen and likely needs to happen is to have a completely organic bullpen to allow all money to go to position players and pitchers. By all accounts, sox have made changes in attempts to be modern in all scouting, but doesn't it come across as just an attempt to be above average? And it still rings a bit that our pro scouting team may still be truly horrendous, as they have yet to show in the entirety of the Hahn era that they are capable of squeezing value out of anything other than taking chances on marginal vet bullpen arms. This is long and I'm sorry, but it also just concerns me. Because while we have added volume and quality through sending out our elite or very quality cost controlled pieces, they have not been supplemented well in draft, and have not been supplemented well out of LatAm. While I am not a Moncada hater, it is hard to see how this team will be an elite contender if Moncada does not become an elite piece alongside Jimenez. Otherwise we need a prospect soon to blast through the doors, not just look like potential backend top 100 players.

Only 11 teams have won the super bowl without a hall of fame QB out of 52. In the past 25 years, two of the four non-hall of fame QBs had great playoffs. Flacco - 11td - 0 int - 1142 yards Foles - 6td - 1 int - 971 yards - 72.6 comp%. The other two had historically great defenses, Bucs and Ravens. You can win without a hall of fame QB, but it's rare. You need a lot to go right. That Ravens team needed Joe Flacco to have a historically good playoffs. He had to be perfect, otherwise they don't win in the playoffs.

Bobby Evans just got fired from his GM job with the Giants. He had 2 winning seasons and then after 2 losing seasons he was shown the door. Hahn has been here 6 years and the team has not had one winning season. Hahn is lucky he's working for a owner who doesn't care about winning. I read where Hahns contract runs thru the 2019 season. It will be interesting to see if he gets rehired.

Since Rick Hahn has taken over as GM the Sox are 130 games,almost a full season, below .500. Their best finish in the AL Central, where they hold several advantages, is 4th place. To say another team would give him him the opportunity to do a total rebuild is silly. I get once they commit to the rebuild, they have to see it through, but the leash has to be short. If they aren’t contending in 2020,he has to go, and he can take KW with him.

Tonight was a righteous tanking effort. I realize the advantage of finishing behind the Marlins....but, my god, how can we be so bad as to finish behind the Marlins!

His passion for the game and the Sox was the best thing about him. When the Sox lost, he suffered that loss with you. You don't see that anymore in announcing these days.

Except that the ownership let the same people who ran the org. into the ground stay in charge for the rebuild, as per above. That is a problem, and, if this doesn't work in the next couple of years, the problem.

The desperation with which you want a scapegoat is amazing. Just making up numbers about value, saying you wish the team was losing money, and generally assuming that you have any clue as to how JR’s ownership actually affects day-to-day baseball operations is just random meatball bullshit. The team is financially stable, staff enjoy working for the group, and theyve shown they have no problem maintaining a payroll in the top half of the league when it makes sense (or even sometimes when doesn’t make sense) to do so. The team can win. There is no reason to believe ownership is the problem.

You can be so tedious at times. Always trying to deflect any and all criticism from the current owner. I guess we’ve come to know and expect this from you at this point, so weak comebacks like this are no surprise. Nonetheless, let’s get back on track and back to the original discussion point The poster to whom I was replying observed that the two owners prior to the current one didn’t enjoy the profits that the current one has for the past 28 years. The simple reason is due to the sweetheart lease deal the current owner strong-armed his way into receiving from the state in the late ‘80s, due solely to the owner’s threats to move the team to Florida if those demands weren’t met. Those threats and demands were widely criticized in the press at the time as “blackmail”. That’s open to interpretation, but you can see why many members of the press concluded as such. Compare that to the purported moves to either Milwaukee or Seattle posed by Allyn, neither of which resulted in Allyn similarly demanding of either the city or state “Give me $$$, or we are out of here.” In other words, there weren’t state-subsidized bailout that prevented those moves. HUGE difference.

The difference is the previous two owners didn’t threaten to move the team to Florida if, among other material concessions, the state of Illinois did not agree to a “sweetheart”, subsidized lease agreement, which guarantees the current owner massive profits every year, no matter what the product on the field. This lease deal has hurt the fanbase more than anything else, because it has removed the natural incentive to improve the product on the field due to the decreased revenues resulting from the failed results of the ball club. If these yearly state-subsidized profits were not in place as they are today, we would not be hearing one word about the owner’s so-called “loyalty” program. He’d be operating just like he did in his profitable real estate business prior to becoming owner of the Sox, which operated on accountability for performance far before this silliness of loyalty.