SoxBlanco

When you say "Theres zero chance, barring injury, that springer could be bad as Joc and engel could be", do you just mean that the floor is definitely lower for Joc/Engel? Or are you saying there's zero chance that a Joc/Engel platoon could put up a better season than Springer?

Ok, so 5 WAR for Springer and 2.5 WAR for an Engel/Joc platoon? And they aren’t demands. They were simple requests based on our discussion.

Why do you keep avoiding the question? I don’t want an over/under prediction based on my comparison. I want you to tell me what you honestly think their numbers will be. Feel free to use WAR or OPS.

Can you be more specific for Joc and Engel?

Alright, why don’t you tell me what you expect from Springer next year. Then tell me what you expect from a Joc/Engel platoon.

I like how in a span of 15 minutes, you talk about how you like the changes Engel has made, but then you’re not a fan of “cherry picking” the most recent full season played. Cherry picking would be selecting a random year a few years ago that benefits my argument. Did you happen to notice that the year I used for Springer was by far his best? Why didn’t you have an issue with me cherry picking that year?

Elaborate please. What are you laughing at?

Springer: 556 PA, 39 HR, 0.974 OPS, 156 wRC+ Joc/Engel: 553 PA, 38 HR, 0.907 OPS, 135 wRC+

Yeah, that's not a horrible idea, depending on how much money Phili kicks in. What do you think is reasonable if that's the trade?

I can’t see teams trading for Wheeler with that contract unless the asking price is very low.

I didn’t get it either until I looked at his username.

I believe the gap in production between a Joc/Engel platoon and Springer is smaller than the gap in cost. I would love Springer, but I wouldn’t mind a Joc/Engel platoon that gives us a .900 OPS in RF for much less money and also allows us flexibility to go after a top end starter at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Agreed. That’s why I think it’s best to just sign a couple mid-tier starters (Richards, Quintana, Odorizzi, etc.) and then reevaluate where we’re at with Cease, Dunning, and Kopech at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Wow, that’s a crazy ask. I wouldn’t even give up Cease or Dunning straight up for Lynn.

Do you still think there’s a chance the Sox sign McCann?

What kind of deal do you guys think Bauer ultimately gets?

This is exactly where I'm at.

What do you guys think about Kopech, Stiever, and Dalquist for Snell? Would you guys make that trade? Would the Rays?

Did we even know Masur wasn’t returning until now?

I’m starting to think an offseason of Joc, a couple of mid-tier starters (Quintana and Richards, for example), and a reliever (maybe Colome) is a likely outcome. I know most people would consider that a huge disappointment, but I wouldn’t hate it. We would be taking a 35-25 club, replacing EE and Mazara with Vaughn and Joc/Engel, adding some depth to the rotation, and giving Dunning, Cease, and Kopech a chance to develop/compete for a spot in the rotation. Look, I want Bauer or Springer as much as anyone, but if we don’t land one, it won’t be the end of the world like a lot of people here will make it out to be. It would also give us a lot of flexibility to add a starter at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Yeah, I want Vaughn up as quickly as possible. Secure that extra year and get him up. After looking at the Springer vs Joc/Engel platoon stats, we could improve our lineup a lot with minimal spending just by replacing EE with Vaughn and Mazara with Joc/Engel. Then we’d have a lot of flexibility to attack starting pitching either now, at the trade deadline, or next year.

We will be adding at least one, possibly two starting pitchers.

Good catch, and that makes it even better because now the PA’s are almost identical in the comparison. I’ll edit it. I originally had PA for Joc/Engel but AB for Springer accidentally.

Alright, I gave this an attempt using 2019 stats. Here is Springer vs platoon splits of Joc/Engel: Springer: 556 PA, 39 HR, 0.974 OPS, 156 wRC+ Joc/Engel: 553 PA, 38 HR, 0.907 OPS, 135 wRC+

Can someone who is better at finding advanced stats and splits better than I can do a comparison of what we can expect from a Joc/Engel platoon vs what we can expect from Springer for a 162 game season?