JuliusO1274

Leury. Leury's WAR numbers have been good(and much better than Engel) considering his limited playing time. Even if you just look at his time playing center field he still is an overall much better rated player than Engel.

Cease has looked better than Kopech ever did in the minors. He and Eloy are our best prospects.

It seems people are have already forgotten the numbers he put up last Spring Training when he was pre season MVP.

The White Sox being cheap asses in regards to Manny and Harper looks even worse considering the amount of money wasted on garage this offseason which could have been used for either of those two.

Why would it be premature when the big FA splash would be signing on for 8-10 years with the team?

You are looking specifically at age 34 and 35 and ignoring that both Ortiz and Frank had seasons in their 30's which they missed 550 plate appearances. The Sox could also find excuses to play him less in such a situation as he would likely be regressing at that stage of his career.

Some of this may be accurate but the White Sox surely did not think 175 million would scare any team away.

The key issue is the player opt out. Hahns comments suggest they are not fond of them because they are exclusively player beneficial hence the reason the Sox offer to Manny did not include any. This was likely one of the main nails in the coffin at our chances of signing him. The opt out he got from San Diego was after the 5th year, I still don't understand why the White Sox would care if Manny came and raked for 5 years and then opted out. We would of had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to contend.

His comments also suggested they are very critical of player opt outs. Manny's opt out from San Diego was after the 5th year, why would the White Sox be against that? Who cares if Manny rakes and then opts out after the 5th year. We would have had him in his prime during our "window".

So basically it seems there were 3 teams (Phillies, White Sox, and Padres) ready to spend "stupid" money for the 2 stars available this off season and the White Sox are the one that ends up neither.

It is easy to say this in hindsight but White Sox fans would have hated this move if Hahn tried it and it didn't work. Manny would know the White Sox were bluffing anyway. There is no way they would walk away from Manny just because he wouldn't sign as quickly as they wanted and Sox fans would be livid if something like that occurred.

I believe an opt out after 5 years with the White Sox would nullify that because he would make more through those 5 years with the Sox and then could opt out for another contract at age 30-31 and likely end up making more than the 300m guarantee by the Padres. No star player wants to be trapped with a team for 8-10 years without a player opt out. If the White Sox were never offering an opt out for Manny they never had a chance.

There has been so much discussion about the specifics of the numbers but little about the lack of opt out offered by the White Sox when that was likely the nail in the coffin for the White Sox hopes at landing Manny. Just like a team is worried about being locked into a lengthy contract with a player, a player is also worried about being trapped with a franchise that is going nowhere and they want out of. Add an opt out after year 5 to our offer and Manny probably chooses us. I don't understand why that would be against the White Sox philosophy. Who cares if he opts out after 5 years when we would have had him in his prime during the years we are hoping to be our "window".

I never got a response to my previous question about whether the White Sox offer to Manny including any opt outs. If not then that was likely a major reason for him choosing the Padres with the 5th year opt out.

This would give the White Sox the ability to fuck him over though by limiting his playing time. He will likely be declining by then which would give them an excuse to bench him more. Declining talent and increase injury probability due to aging make the 550 PA not as much of an easy guarantee as some think.

I haven't had time to read all the posts but did the White Sox offer have any opt outs?

Breaking news from Hector.

Hahn would never sign Moose as a back up plan while we are still in the running to get Manny because if Manny did sign with the Sox we would also be stuck with Moose's contract. It means nothing in regards to Manny's choice other than the fact that the White Sox still have a chance at getting him.

Yoan never had the amazing offensive numbers Eloy has had in the minors.

If the Padres are offering opt outs after year 2&3 then they will be tough to beat even with a higher bid. I don't think the White Sox will want to offer an opt out prior to year 4 and I don't blame them.

Harper has put up a WAR less than 2 every other season, is that worth 30M+ a season?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Just because a team is willing to spend 300m+ on one player doesn't mean they are willing to do it twice, and in the same offseason at that. 10 years 300m+ is in itself "stupid money". If they sign Harper for money like that they are not going to be going after Machado for a similar amount.

I was hoping he would sign after Manny because if Harper's contract is a lot more than what has been offered to Manny then that will cause Manny to demand a contract in the same price range.

Imo they should renovate more for the new rebuild era. They should alter the outfield wall dimensions and change the overall aesthetic behind the outfield walls. We have one of the dullest looking parks in the majors.

I've heard this claimed a few times now, is there a source for this belief? Maybe a quote from Manny himself stating this?