greg775

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) No it isn't. Not to anyone who watched games that season. We caught lightning in a bottle. That team was not supposed to perform that well, not by a longshot. Look at teams like the Yankees. For a long time it didn't really matter who their manager was. They were just too good. Once the Sox came back to earth it became pretty obvious pretty quick that Ozzie was a dimwit. So simply winning, without taking any ACTUAL criteria into account, makes the manager masterful... no matter what. Piss-poor logic, greg. Sorry. You already tried to counter the idea we'd be better off without him by saying "He won us a WS title." So you're kinda contradicting yourself. I just think you don't know any better. Uh... no, we won't. You will, I'm sure... but not all of us. 1.) Oh, cmon Hurt, you are giving the manager of a WS team no credit. Oz will be better off in Florida with a lot of fans agreeing with you. Our fanbase doesn't deserve him if fans truthfully believe we won in spite of him. My gosh I wish I could be the type of fan you are. I truly believe you are misguided to think the skipper, the man who makes out the lineups, the man who makes all the calls had nothing to do with our success and was a 'dimwit.' You want him gone. Fine. But IMO your comments about that season are misguided. No credit to the manager? Well I'll go the other way and say he did a GREAT job managing that team and the players were great as well. 2.) You want me to go through all those close games in the postseason and state my case for Ozzie's managing? Please. Do we really want me to do that? We lost one game that postseason and many of the games were close. I think he did a nice job. 3.) He has the last laugh. He has Chicago's only WS title since the dark ages and he's gonna be let go. That truly is laughable. 4.) Maybe I contradict myself but yes he deserves the boot for his performance this year. But I'll never say he's not a great manager and I think it's sad he'll be managing in Florida next year. End of a good era.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:58 AM) You seem to mindlessly think because he was our manager in 2005 that he's a great manager, which is utterly ridiculous. That team was magic. Even Ozzie's bumbling couldn't stop the Sox from winning games that year. And again (since you didn't respond to my last post), 2005 does NOT give him a free pass. Six years later, you're still defending Ozzie on account of a World Series as if it grants him full immunity for the rest of his life with this organization. It doesn't, period. This shouldn't be hard to understand, greg. First of all, I disagree with those who say, "even Ozzie's bumbling couldn't stop the Sox from winning games that year." That frankly is B.S. We were a steamroller thru the playoffs; some were calling us one of the best teams of all time because of that postseason run. He did a masterful job. Uh, a lot of those games were close games, especially in the Series. He was a masterful manager. 2.) You are right 2005 doesn't give him a free pass. I won't cry at his firing. He probably deserves the axe for our s***ty start with this payroll and our continuing s***ty play. I don't care if they fire him. What I AM saying is a.) in 30 years we'll remember him as our best manager, quite possibly the only one to lead us to a WS. The odds of us winning another if baseball remains this way finance wise, are terrible. I'm saying go ahead and fire him, but it is sad because he is young and he's only going to get better IMO. His team let him down horribly this season; he's not a bad manager. I think he's going to be in baseball until he' s 70. Sad it won't be with us, but yes, he prolly deserves to be axed for this season. Interesting that the DH situation is the thing that finally got him fired. Kotsay, then Dunn. If we had some offense from that position, we might uh, win. KW deserves just as much blame as Oz if not more IMO. Peavy? Nice move. Rios? Great. I found your first post. You said to me: "greg... 2005 was 6 damn years ago. This is not 2005 anymore. This whole attitude that Ozzie is entitled to being here simply because of that title is entirely illogical. I don't know what it will take for you to understand this." I agree. Caufield made a good point comparing this to a president. One can do a good job one term and not the next. I agree he probably should get the boot from the Sox office for this team's shameful performance. But I would like him to come back at some point, cause I'm convinced he's good. I would almost approve of Jerry telling him his entire staff has to go and give Ozzie a couple more years once KW gets moved upstairs and Hahn (sp) gets him some real players. But I can handle his firing. Yes this team's unbelievably awful season is on him partly.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:50 AM) BARELY .500? Last I checked this was a sub .500 team. We have one of the worst lineups in baseball. The only reason we're not 20 games below is because we do have a great pitching staff. I think this team ultimately will plummet rather than contend. The hitting is not going to magically improve. f***, it's August almost.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:36 AM) At this point I'm starting to think it is best for him to continue playing full year at AAA, call him up in September, majors next year. Yup. I said it. You are going to be a content fan, then, cause that is obvious what is going on. I guess we'll let Juan walk this offseason and Dayan gets left next year.

I just thought of something. We get to see Adam Dunn bat fourth against a lefty on Wednesday. Awesome. We're going to lose 2 of 3 to KC again ... perfect.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:33 PM) Because that's why he'll get paid a lot starting in 2013, and that's why other teams will be interested in trading for him. What do we expect to get for him? Losing him will make our offense even worse this year and next. p.s. Anybody else just getting bored of "waiting for the team to get hot" and waiting for all the other teams in the Central to suddenly lose 10 in a row so we can win the division by one game, which I guess is KW's goal?

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:37 AM) It would be just like the Sox to call the kid up when he's cold, he goes 0 for his first 10 or so and Ozzie benches him saying that "there's too much pressure on this keeed." Yeah I agree. He'll be called up in September when we are 9 out. Whoopie. If we don't trade him by then.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:06 AM) It definitely does help us cuz its still keeps us only 4.5 games out of the division lead. We still got 65 games left in the season and in our past 65 games we have gained 6.5 games on the division leader. So there is certainly hope to win the division. 4.5 Games is not a huge lead by any means, but ofcourse our s***box offense needs to contribute asap if we plan on taking the division This season has just flat out sucked to be a fan. The All-In crap and a season that, to date, has a season-high win streak of four games. Team gets buried early, plays good enough to win a lot of series to get within five games. Continuing to lose, lose, lose games in frustrating fashion. Continuing to get owned by divisional foes. What a s*** ass season. And now you remind us there's only 65 games left. Finally we are officially starting to run out of time to make something out of this season. We look forward to the season all winter and this season has FLAT OUT SUCKED to date. The only thing(s) fans have had to embrace is a.) it's still early and b.) everybody else in the division sucks, too. What a s***ty season.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:00 AM) Thats because they are programed to believe that sweeps are unnecessary. f*** it we won the series, we did our job. Next. No killer instinct. They are on a year long journey always believing that there is plenty of time to win it. Then when they get mathmatically eliminated, they just say well onto next year. Next. That and our brutal little league like offense that cant hit the crapiest pitchers. Yep, yep. Great post.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:50 AM) Then go ahead and laugh, and take part in 4 pages of threads speculating on ridiculous rumors that make no sense. I mean everyone has their own way of enjoying baseball. The Sox team is flawed in terms of offense, but I think they have the best pitching staff. Im not just going to throw away a season less than 5 games back in a weak division. Im not going to just assume Cleveland will beat them or any of the other stuff. It may happen, but until then Ill believe that the Sox have a chance. In reality the Sox could be winning more games with some simple fixes, its just a question of whether the GM/Manager are submarining the team at this point. Because some one has to be trying to lose here. We're all still watching the games every night, Badger. We just see no reason to believe. It's the same ol s*** week after week. I fully expect to lose tomorrow and that will be four of the last six in the last 2 weeks to KC. We'll probably get a good pitching performance, though. I like our pitching staff; hate our pathetic hitters. I'm sure it'll be Omar time soon since Teahen and Morel can't hit. And yet Viciedo is in the minors.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:46 AM) He isnt selling. I would say that he would burn the entire farm trying to pick up a big name vet to push all in before he sells off. He didnt move a lot of players in our down seasons, he wont this year. He is gambler Kenny and is always all in. I wouldnt get too attached to whatever is left in the system because he is probably about to burn it down to push his chips in. Yeah, I don't trust him. He may want more pitching when we need a 3B who can hit, a CF who can hit, a DH who can hit. Suddenly his team has no home run pop anymore, yet it also has no basestealers. Good luck.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:45 AM) So many people love to surrender. Badger, we want to see a reason to believe. Our team is so mediocre it is laughable.

The Sox are who they are. These games against KC prove it. Sox can't even hit pitchers off a AAA team, which the Royals are. First in Chicago, now here. What a joke. Sell Kenny, sell now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:41 AM) Aj yelling at the ump during the postgame interview. I was surprised AJ swung at ball four a couple times in that at bat.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 03:41 AM) Our 16 million dollar pitcher has now lost 3 straight games to Paulino, Swarzak and Duffy Our 16 million pitcher looks like a reliever. He had good velocity for a few innings. Sox may lose another series to KC. So funny.

Hilarious. Six runs in two games against KC. Still a sub .500 team. Nice offensive ballplayers, White Sox. We are officially the only team KC can beat in a 2 month span.

Curve ball. Whiff.

Here comes the heater on 1-2.

I don't think Lilly with the long swing will catch up with this guy's fastball.

Finally somebody hits that straight, hard fastball. Rios with double.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:42 PM) Dunn and Rios combined 4 for 32 since the break -- and the Sox are 3-1. Imagine ... And ... he's got 124 Ks with a .158 batting average. We need to start a pool on picking the date when his strikeout total overtakes his batting average. I'm going with Aug. 5 at Minnesota. It's hard to hit .158. This is like a bad dream.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) If KW REALLY wants to alienate his fanbase, he'll bring in Cora or Bell. Nobody in the world would be excited about either of those guys. It would cost us season ticket renewals. Whether it's fair or not, there's the perception that he's "too close to Ozzie" or would mirror the Guillen style as a manager, which is definitely not what this franchise needs. Plus, he's been passed over for a number of jobs that opened up when the White Sox as an organization actually looked like they had it all together (2005-2008) and knew what they were doing. Finally, I don't think he'd consider "crossing" Guillen after being his loyal/faithful lieutenant for so long. Obviously, Walker wouldn't stay with Cora, would he? Hopefully, he'd go with Guillen. I'd wonder if maybe Ozzie would like to see Cora fail (and that's more likely than not unless KW pulls a rabbit out of the hat again like before 2008) just so he could say "told you so, Sox fans!" Greg, your experience argument only counts to an extent. We all live in a "what have you done for me lately" universe. In fact, Ozzie had very little actual managing background (just as a 3rd/1st base coach) when he was hired. I'm trying to think of an analogy and maybe it doesn't fit, lol. Let's say it's a former president who came in with very little experience but was "tremendously" successful and popular in the earlier part of his career, but things kind of fell apart at the end of his assignment. Would you want him to come back? Heck, there's a very good chance that our current president won't be re-elected because so many people are scared and uncertain about their economic futures. Let's say President "B" was manager of the White Sox from 2004-2007, and President "O" was manager of the White Sox from 2008-2011...the arguments against EITHER manager being provided an opportunity to manage the White Sox in 2012 would be very difficult to SELL to the White Sox fanbase. Fans (and voters) always want the fresh face and don't have the patience to ride things out. Look at what happened with LaRussa, for another example. He wasn't given nearly as much time as Ozzie after having great early success turning things around as a new manager. Decent analogy. I think most people agree LaRussa got better and better as he aged. It's a shame to waste Ozzie's learning years here then let him go manage elsewhere. Plus he already has a WS title under his belt. The guy has some postseason magic which shouldn't be discounted.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) Pierre - LF Ramirez - SS Konerko - 1B Quentin - DH Rios - CF Lillibridge - RF Beckham - 2B Flowers - C Morel - 3B That's a lineup that looks good to me, too. Wonder how it'll play out? Morel and Omar in the 2 hole was really bad for that long, long stretch of time. It'd be nice to see the rookie walk or hit Juan to lead off the game and have Lexi single to right setting the table.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Yep. Omar is somewhat respectable against LHP, and he's barely played at all lately, so WTF? If Morel fails to hit against the lefties tonight and tomorrow, is that what finally allows his demotion, and a DV or ADA promotion, such that potentially we have a roster change heading into Shank Hall? You don't really want more of Omar do you? I really don't think we'll see Dayan til September. They are going to stick with Juan and Dunn and there's nowhere else to play him unfortunately since I guess third base is out of the question.

QUOTE (tpezz27 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:51 PM) Pierre LF, Ramirez SS, Konerko 1B, Quentin DH, Rios CF, Lillibridge RF, Beckham 2B, Flowers C, Morel 3B, (Peavy P) Thank God no Adam Dunn. Don't we have a pretty good record when he sits? Post appendectomy period I mean, once he returned from that.